How much is too much?

[RichardDBeck]

I'm pretty new to reloading and I am doing so for my Smith and Wesson shield 9mm. I'm trying to stay close or under normal factory ammo pressures. I still want my gun to cycle properly.

The reloading manuals all have different recommendations for a 115 grain fmj 9mm load. Some say 3.9 grains of powder while others say 4.1 grains of powder. Then I went onto the powder manufacturers website and they say 4.7 grains

The powder I'm using is Bullseye. The reloading shop I went to recommend it because I'm using a short barreled handgun.

Does anybody reload 9mm with Bullseye? Should I have chosen a different powder? Should I trust the manufactures 4.7 grains when all the books say between 3.9 and 4.1? Can the smith and wesson shield hand +p or +p+ ammo?

 

[arjay]

If one of the manuals uses the exact bullet you have,I'd go with that.If not,I'd go with the lesser charge.

 

[RichardDBeck]

I loaded 65 rounds at the lesser charge because like you said none of the manuals had the brand specific bullet. Some of the manuals had an identical bullet of a different brand (I assumed that would be ok) and they recommended a lower charge.

Also I don't have a chronograph yet so I don't want to over do the charge till I can verify it's velocity.

 

[Zjnovak]

3.9 is probably the minimum charge, while 4.1 is the maximum. Your Shield will eat +P without a problem, +P+ is overkill IMO (for practice ammo) and it wears out parts prematurely. I typically find a "similar" bullet in one or two manuals, bump it down one incrament on my auto disk measure, and start from there. Generally I will load about 10 of each weight until I reach max pressure. Find out which one is the most accurate and cycles your firearm properly.

I prefer Power Pistol for 9mm, but that's just my opinion. Bullseye should be fine.

Sent from my Android using Tapatalk

 

[jwalts27]

I'm pretty new to reloading and I am doing so for my Smith and Wesson shield 9mm. I'm trying to stay close or under normal factory ammo pressures. I still want my gun to cycle properly.

The reloading manuals all have different recommendations for a 115 grain fmj 9mm load. Some say 3.9 grains of powder while others say 4.1 grains of powder. Then I went onto the powder manufacturers website and they say 4.7 grains

The powder I'm using is Bullseye. The reloading shop I went to recommend it because I'm using a short barreled handgun.

Does anybody reload 9mm with Bullseye? Should I have chosen a different powder? Should I trust the manufactures 4.7 grains when all the books say between 3.9 and 4.1? Can the smith and wesson shield hand +p or +p+ ammo?

You will often find varying data. Make sure you pay close attention to the OAL. More often than not my Lyman manual will say one depth and a higher charger. And my SPeer manual will say a lower charge a shorter OAL. Its always handy to have 2 or 3 sources.

 

[Boox]

It seems like every reloading manual has a different charge value for Bullseye. and the new Lee manual even has different charges for some Hornady bullets separate from the Jacketed bullets.
I use Bullseye in my 9mm reloads and have settled on 124 grain bullets, gold dots or golden sabers. I do shoot some lead, but not enuf to talk about. My old reloading buddy, who has been reloading since the chinese invented powder told me to;
a. Pick a bullet
b. Choose a bullet weight
c. Pick a powder for that bullet weight and shoot it at the starting weight, then work up. As you increase weight of powder, pay attention to the group size. when the group size is to your liking, center it to your sights. Now you have a load that shoots where you want it to go almost all the time and it don't get much better than that. You're not done yet, tho.
My process was to load 5 rounds of 3 or 4 different powder weights, increasing 2/10's of a grain at a time until I found it, then go back to the range in a day or two and repeat the process, but bring along some of the best shooting loads fro the previous trip, 10 or 20 rounds or so, just to compare. after about the third trip you will know what load is the best for right now so go shoot it up. Get in the habit of sight picture, fire and followup. But ya gotta shoot 'em to get good. Take good notes from the range and Keep it fun!!!

 

[K-framer]

I too use Bullseye for 9mm loads. It's not the only powder I use, but I use it often.

To give you a short, simple answer to your question:

With a 115 grain, plated or jacketed bullet, in normal pressure 9mm loads, using Bullseye..... you can safely load anywhere between less than 2.0 grains to around 5.0 grains.

Bear in mind that 2.0 grains is so light that it probably won't cycle ANY production semi-auto. So, such a load would be largely useless. A reasonable charge weight range, for general shooting, would be roughly 3.5 to 4.5 grains. The useful bottom end to be determined by what load will cycle the gun, be accurate and throw the brass about 5 ft away from the gun, which is what you want.

As for myself, for target loads with 115 grain jacketed or plated bullets, I've settled on about 3.8 grains. This works perfectly in all 4 of my 9mm pistols.

I'd suggest starting at 3.5 grains or so..... and working up.

 

[SMSgt]

If your ears ring, your hand hurts, and it raining gun pieces--it's too much.

Reloading manuals seldom agree on any particular load. Pick one, start low and work up--watching for over-pressure signs.

 

[Pisgah]

Here's the thing -- every company putting out a loading manual uses different guns or test barrels, different bullets, different lots of powder. The loads they show are safe with THEIR set-up, and may or may not be safe in yours. That's why every single one of them will tell you to start at the minimum and work up slowly to the max. It is not just lawyer-speak.

 

[Twoboxer]

I loaded 65 rounds at the lesser charge because . . .

Normal practice is to load (eg) 3-5 rounds at the low end you've chosen, and then 2 or 3 more sets of 3-5 at successively higher powder charges. At some point the pistol will cycle, at some point the spent brass will eject like factory rounds (or softer). Of course a chrono would help, but many folks load without one.

But never 65 rounds of a charge you're guessing at for the bullet, powder, and pistol involved.

 

[shil]

Since the 9mm is a high-pressure round to begin with, it's easy to go overboard to the point of stressing the pistol to the point of breakage and not experiencing obvious signs of excess pressure. Use the recipe in the manual EXACTLY, and work up; Same brass, same bullet, same primer, same overall length/seating depth. Been there, done that!

 

[chief38]

Richard,
Re-loading is not an exact science. There are too many variables involved such as primer brands, powder lots, bullet casters, different lubes, different bullet dimensions, different case manufacturers, how much and what type of crimp you use, overall cartridge length, (not to mention every gun is a little different), blah blah blah.

I have three different reloading manuals - a Speer, a Hornady and a Lyman. They all have different data results for the same cartridges with the same bullets. They also recommend different starting and max loads.

The loading manuals (free on line now from all the powder makers by the way) are meant to be a general guide and put you in the Ball Park. I would always recommend starting at the lowest recommended powder charge and work up from there. When I do a new loading or a cartridge that I've never loaded before I will start at the lowest recommended charge and work up from there. I load 10 bullets of each powder charge and mark them so when I Chronograph them at the Range I'll know exactly which bullets contain which load. After settling in on a load by choosing what the performance is vs what I want to do with it, I'll usually load up 50 - 100 rounds of that one and make sure through more Chronographing that it is exactly what I want (accuracy, velocity, recoil, penetration, etc.)

Don't get yourself crazy, just get a chronograph (usually around $100 bucks or so) and you will SEE what the results of your loads really are. It's a greatly useful tool and will last a long time. You can split the cost between a few of your shooting Bud's so there is no big outlay of money.

 

[RichardDBeck]

Thank you all for your very helpful feed back. I shot the rounds I loaded and they had a really nice tight grouping. The gun cycled but did not stay open on the last round every time. Also the brass was falling next to my feet. That was with the lower charge. The last shot hold open was 50/50. For practice I'm ok with that. Now that I know I have a safe load I'll do more at that same pressure.

I also shot some factory ammo right before so I could tell the difference. To be honest it felt the same. I think I'll stick with the 4.0 grains till I get a chronograph. This seems to be a pretty light load. If I get a chrono I'll play with increasing it a bit.

 

[SMSgt]

It sounds like your load is too light and the slide is not cycling far enough to engage the slide lock. Many pistols will feed/fire fine without complete slide travel (I know for a fact my Glock 30 does), but it has to go far enough to catch the slide lock.

And that load may work fine in a different gun, but yours is telling you something--listen to it. That's part of the joy of reloading--tuning a load to perfection in your gun.

 

[hfl73]

I have had success using Bullseye with 124 gr. CMJ Montana Gold Bullets and a 4.3 gr. powder charge with a 1.140 OAL. in both my Shield and FS M&P 9mm. If I do my part accuracy is very good. It is my "go to" bullet for weekly IDPA type shoots at my club. My shooting buddy uses a 4.5 gr. charge with 115 gr. Montana Gold Bullets and is pleased with his results.

 

[fredj338]

The data in the manuals is only valid with those exact components. FMJ are NOT the same as plated. The shorter the slide/bbl, the less likely the gun will run with starting loads. The stiff recoil spring is designed to run with full power ammo.
BE is a target powder, not really suited for safe full power ammo. A medium burner (see a chart) from W231 to PowerPistol will yield better results @ a recoil level that will run the gun safely.

 

[Twoboxer]

OP: If your pistol cycles reliably with factory ammo, but doesn't with your handloads, the load is too light. Based on your description, your pistol wants a bit more to cycle reliably . . . so give it a tenth or two more powder. It will still certainly be a safe load.

As said earlier, that's part of what handloading is all about.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

IMO Bullseye is a very fast powder and I wouldn't load for the 9mm with it. The slowest I go is W231/HP-38 and I also use a 124gr bullet over a 115gr bullet.

Sorry I can't help with Bullseye but I can tell you there is a very small spread between safe and not safe with fast powders in cartridges with very small cases.

 

[skrazo]

Reloading manuals seldom agree on any particular load. Pick one, start low and work up--watching for over-pressure signs.

Amen to that! I have four(4) different manuals. All differ in recommendations for a given bullet and powder. The main thing is start low and work your way up as SMSgt says.

 

[rwsmith]

Just a couple 1/10ths of a grain...

With Bullseye and 9mm, just a couple 1/10s of a grain can make a world of difference.