How plausible is this - pleading guilty on fed crime and getting...

[Ματθιας]

The guy I know who claims to be a SEAL or UDT or whatever, has another story.

I've known this guy for years. He has a small store and I've done business with him over the years. It's like a "junk" store and, if I'm in the area, I'll stop in and see what he has and BS for a few.

Anyway, besides that SEAL story, he occasionally tells the story that he got busted in a raid by the ATF in the late 70's or early 80's. He also said that he pled guilty to 3 counts of possession of an unregistered automatic weapon. At the time, I said to myself, "OK, whatever..."

Fast forward earlier this year, when he was burglarized and his firearm was stolen. I would think that he was a prohibited person, but he reported it stolen to the PD or whatever LE agency he reported it to. I thought to myself that should be interesting...

I stopped by his store yesterday and he was happy he got his gun back. He said his forearm was recovered and they called to come pick it up. I asked him what he had to do to get it back said, "4473 and background check".

When I asked him how he passed his background check after his guilty plea, he said his record is clean because when he plead guilty he got diversion program, probation, $1000 fine and he kept all of his rights as his record was expunged or something along those lines.

How likely is that? Does that sound plausible or is that a bunch of nonsense?

I think it's nonsense.

 

[Alk8944]

There are definitely situations where a conviction may be expunged. If this happens it is just as though it never happened. His story is completely plausible.

 

[Erich]

Can't (well, "won't") answer about federal court; completely plausible in NM state court.

 

[DWalt]

Just like getting a marriage annulled. Like it never happened. But I don't know if the Feds indulge in expunging.

 

[Ματθιας]

Isn't possession of an unregistered automatic weapon a FEDERAL crime?

Maybe I'm wrong, but to get off after pleading guilty to 3 felonies with, basically, a slap on the wrist - wouldn't that be the equivalent of winning the lottery with the feds?

I mean, I don't know, that's why I'm asking.

 

[LoboGunLeather]

Sounds like a variation on the deferred sentencing plea agreement. Enter the guilty plea in exchange for a period of probation, at the end of which the charge is dismissed. Violate terms of probation and the original sentence is immediately imposed (at least in theory).

Not the worst settlements I have seen over the years. I remember one guy, defendant in a dozen cases including multiple felonies and misdemeanors over the course of more than a year (all of which occurred while on probation for a prior conviction), allowed to enter a plea on one misdemeanor with all other cases dismissed, six months unsupervised probation with final judgement deferred, no fine, no court costs.

I think it should be called the Frequent Offender Discount Plan. Naturally, this is considered a conviction for the prosecutor bragging about his record at re-election time.

 

[375hh1973]

Sounds like the guy is full of ****

 

[jeffrefrig]

I know a guy who was charged with 4 felonies after beating a guy up pretty good. When it came time to go to court, nobody wanted to prosecute, police, etc., after more facts came out. The judge gave him 2 years probation, a boatload of hours community service, and after completion of this ARD program, which is usually used for first offenders if the prosecution agrees, then all charges are changed to non-conviction, or expunged. (ARD=Accelerated Rehabilitative Distribution, or something like that.)
Sounds like the same thing that guy got that owned the 2nd-hand shop. He still seems like he may be a BSer.

 

[ImprovedModel56Fan]

Very believable. If they wouldn't do it for a SEAL, for whom would they do it? Now, if he was only UDT, that's a whole nother kettle of fish, or crock of . . . , well, you get the idea.

 

[03hemi]

A buddy of mine was charged and convicted of a felony when he was young adult and did some type of "program" too (1st Offense) and was concerned about passing his 4473, but came back clean and also passed his carry background check too?

 

[Skeet 028]

The Fed rules allow people with some convictions to get relief from disabilities from the BATF. I had a customer who had one. When they were trying to get unregistered machine guns licensed they allowed felons who had one to register same and keep the machine guns...sounds like a bunch of **** but was true. There were about 120 registered owned by prohibited persons nationwide...may have been more...I also know of a few people who had full autos who were charged and given PBJ...and had no record after doing the probation. One of them tried to sell me his Sten Gun

 

[Wyo]

That's entirely possible in Wyoming state courts, not sure about the federal courts but I expect it might well be. Basically, a guilty plea is entered but no formal order of conviction is filed. If the guy behaves for a stated period of time, up to 3 years, the case can be dismissed and no conviction will show up because no conviction was ever entered. It's kind of a "pocket probation" program that's occasionally used for 1st time offenders that did some really stupid thing. We didn't use it for chronic offenders.

 

[Skeet 028]

The above court cases happened in Maryland...but a Maryland of 30 years ago. And in state courts. The Federal program was approved by the justice dept if I remember correctly

 

[bobsguns]

A buddy of mine was charged and convicted of a felony when he was young adult and did some type of "program" too (1st Offense) and was concerned about passing his 4473, but came back clean and also passed his carry background check too?

If you have a felony, ANYTHING, that must be checked on a 4473 & immediately disqualifies the buyer.

His felony MAY have been reduced to a misdemeanor in a plea bargain, I don't know.

A felony is like being pregnant: either you are or you're not. No in-between.

 

[Ματθιας]

If you have a felony, ANYTHING, that must be checked on a 4473 & immediately disqualifies the buyer.

His felony MAY have been reduced to a misdemeanor in a plea bargain, I don't know.

A felony is like being pregnant: either you are or you're not. No in-between.

That's what I'm trying to say. I've known this guy long enough and heard enough of his tall tales to know that if those 3 charges were reduced to misdemeanors, he would've bragged about it.

Is pleading guilty the same as a conviction? When it comes to criminal matters my only experience is traffic court so I have no clue.

 

[ImprovedModel56Fan]

I know a few tall people that play golf, but not during a thunderstorm.

I probably wouldn't hang around this guy.

 

[bobsguns]

Is pleading guilty the same as a conviction?

No. A judge can reject a guilty plea if he thinks it's coerced or pressured (by the DA?) or if the guilty plea is for a lesser charge than was the original charge. There's probably more circumstances but I can't recall them.

Once a judge accepts a guilty plea and agrees to it, judge finds the defendant guilty for the record, defendant then has a felony. Sentencing can be held later.

Methinks your "friend" would make a wonderful used car salesman. Or a politician.

 

[Skeet 028]

To clarify..It isn't just a Felony that can get you barred from buying a firearm.. It is ANY crime punishable by over a year in jail. If you are found guilty of misdemeanor assault..and found guilty...and given a 100 dollar fine...if the statute you are found guilty of COULD HAVE earned you over a year in jail...you will lose the right to purchase a firearm. heck even if you are given probation... Read the pertinent question on the 4473. The word is punishable...not punished

 

[Wyo]

No. A judge can reject a guilty plea if he thinks it's coerced or pressured (by the DA?) or if the guilty plea is for a lesser charge than was the original charge. There's probably more circumstances but I can't recall them.

Once a judge accepts a guilty plea and agrees to it, judge finds the defendant guilty for the record, defendant then has a felony. Sentencing can be held later.

Methinks your "friend" would make a wonderful used car salesman. Or a politician.

Actually, a judge can reject a jury's finding of guilt just the same as he/she can reject a guilty plea under certain circumstances. It isn't often done but it is permitted under the Rules of Criminal Procedure. A guilty plea, once accepted, is the same as a jury conviction, once entered, for purposes of the Gun Control Act of 1968. If the crime is punishable by more than one year of imprisonment, which is how a felony is generally defined, the purchaser is disqualified. There are ways to get a waiver to end that disqualification but that's a different subject.

 

[bobsguns]

Actually, a judge can reject a jury's finding of guilt just the same as he/she can reject a guilty plea under certain circumstances. It isn't often done but it is permitted under the Rules of Criminal Procedure. A guilty plea, once accepted, is the same as a jury conviction, once entered, for purposes of the Gun Control Act of 1968. If the crime is punishable by more than one year of imprisonment, which is how a felony is generally defined, the purchaser is disqualified. There are ways to get a waiver to end that disqualification but that's a different subject.

A judge can also overrule a guilty finding by a jury, which is as you stated, is rare.

In TN, any sentence beyond 11 months, 29 days is considered a felony. That's the max for any misdemeanor here. I'm guessing this will vary among the states.

Short answer: keep yer nose clean!