How safe is the M&P without the manual safety

1sailor

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Okay, please don't start with me till you read my explanation. I've never owned a DAO pistol before. I do own a hamerless J frame that I carry and feel perfectly fine with it. I always thought that a DAO auto would have a trigger similar to a DA revolver or like the first shot on a SA/DA auto. So, I figured that carrying one without a safety would be just like carrying my J frame. Anyway, yesterday was the first time I got to feel the trigger on an M&P and it's nothing like a DA revolver. It took almost no force to take the slack out of the trigger. Then with a very slight pull "click". Surprised me because I was expecting the whole mechanical thing like a revolver. This was more like pulling the trigger on a cocked pistol. That got me to wondering just how safe is it to carry with one in the pipe. I suppose that the holster would protect the trigger from being pulled back which means the gun couldn't fire. I understand about a trigger safety. It just seems kind of sketchy to me. Maybe because I'm not used to it (I have owned several pistols in my liftime but never a DAO). Can I get a little feedback on this please. Is the main focus to rely on the holster to cover the trigger. Just seemed like it would be awfully easy to inadvertantly pull back such an easy trigger. By the way, the pistol I tried was a Pro series. Also, I don't hear about a lot of guys shooting themselves with them so I must be missing something here.
 
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As safe as it gets...keep your finger out of the trigger guard on ALL guns and you will never have a problem. YOU are the safety not the lever on the gun.
Randy
 
Yes, I understand that. I suppose it's just a different set of rules as compared to a DAO revolver. Of course you keep your finger away from the trigger on a revolver also but the length and weight of the pull has always been considered a safety feature. And please bear in mind I am NOT trying to say they're not safe. I guess I was just kind of taken back by the ease with which the trigger could be pulled. It was nothing like I expected. I don't plan on carrying an M&P concealed as I am satisfied with my J frame (also an M&P ironicaly). Also, I grew up with automatics that had hammers and safeties so this is an entirely new relm for me.
 
trigger pull

the m&p is not a double action only pistol, it is very similar to glock safe action, the double action only on guns like kahr, and sig 250 and several others is very much like a double action revolver. the m&p and glocks require some type holster to be safe enough for carry.
 
Thanks, that's pretty much what I was thinking. I had fired a Kahr before and I suppose that's what I was expecting the M&P to be like.
 
They are "safe", but far less forgiving of human error (we ARE all human), so a negligent discharge is more likely. The NYPD authorizes 3 semi autos, the Glock 19, the S&W 5946, and the SIG 226. All officers receive the same training. At the time that i retired, there were ZERO ND's with the Sig or Smith. Every one of them were with a Glock. Reholstering after a footchase or while wrestling with somebody is NOT like shooting at the range. We always trained to holster with the thumb on the hammer to prevent those ND's. Seems to have worked since nobody ever had an ND with a Smith or SIG.

For an experienced shooter,striker fired guns are fine. They're a bad idea for new shooters.
 
A long/heavy trigger pull would seem to be less prone to having an accident, like a DAO J frame or Kahr. There are reports of Glocks firing with holstering when a foreign object got into the top (a jacket strap or cord)? A grip safety like the one on the XD may help prevent this type of problem from happening.
 
You could always buy a Massachussets spec M&P with its 10 pound trigger pull.

Stock Glocks come with a 5.5 pound trigger pull, which is extremely light. The NYPD guns all had 12 pound "NY Triggers" installed, and still dozens of ND's.
 
Since S&W thoughtfully offers a manual safety option, go for it if you have concerns. The thumb safety is a good thing, IMHO. My M&Ps have them.
 
I have a safety on one of mine. I cut off the right hand side, and it seems to stay on while carrying concealed. I don't think it snaps into position as securely as a 1911, but I don't worry about it. I carry with one in the pipe with no worries whatsoever. I carry in a crossbreed supertuck. I also carry my 1911 cocked and locked in a supertuck.

Keep your booger-hook off the bang-switch and it won't fire (I love that saying).
 
Ah, you've discovered the truth about "DAO" striker-fired guns - they are not DAO guns. :eek:

A true DA trigger both cocks the action and releases the trigger. The action on an M&P is 98% cocked by the slide leaving a miniscule 2% left for the trigger - something that is indistinguishable for the shooter. In fact, S&W literature talks about how they developed the M&P to mimic an SA trigger.

And quite frankly, they did a pretty good job of it. My M&P 40L has a drop-in Apex trigger kit that results in a 2.7# trigger - a full pound lighter than either of my far more expensive 1911's. Sure, nothing will make the M&P trigger as slick as a good 1911 trigger, but these allegedly DAO guns are routinely beating the 1911s in competition. They are that fast.

Too fast for defensive use IMHO.

If you are facing down a bad guy and have your gun drawn and pointed at him, then rest assured that the safety is off and your finger is on the trigger.

But, that does not mean that the decision has been made to shoot him. Not yet. If you're lucky he'll turn and run like crazy and you managed to NOT press the trigger enough to make the gun fire, then the scenario ended without having to shoot anyone.

OTOH, if your finger pressed the trigger just a tad too much because you had gallons of adrenalin pumping through the veins & your fine motor skills went south and you shot the guy as he was turning and running - well, that was a very bad day for both him and you.

I prefer DA/SA or true DAO guns for defensive use. I want a relatively long and heavy trigger pull on the first shot because I know that half the brain goes out the window in a real deal scenario as well as all wonderful fine motor skills we finesse our target and competition triggers with. That usually means starting out with a brand new 10# DA trigger that will turn into a lovely 7# trigger after action work. Perfect for defensive use.

We have owned several M&Ps and my M&P 40L is my favorite competition pistol. Our first was a 9c that I bought for concealed carry. That didn't last very long once I realized how easy it was to deploy the trigger. While not as nice as a 1911 trigger, the stock M&P trigger is just about as easy to pull as a basic 1911 trigger. In fact, S&W says that they developed the M&P to mimic an SAO trigger. As a result, the M&P trigger is far easier to deploy than on any of our Sig's, S&W 3913's or Kahr's. So, I carry Kahr's when I want small and light, Sig's when I want more capacity and the 3913 when I can't make up my mind. :rolleyes: BTW, I do have a very nice 1911 for carry, but it isn't my favorite because it is simply too darn fast on the first shot, and not one bit faster on the second than my Sig; probably slower.

Do no harm.

Wyatt Earp said "Draw fast, shoot slow." That's easier to do when the gun is designed with that in mind.

Our solution was to sell my M&P 9c carry pistol and replace it with Sig P226 & P6 for home defense and Kahr K9/PM40/CM9 for carry. We've just recently augmented/replaced the Kahr's with a pair of S&W 3913's with true DA/SA triggers.
 
My only fear firing a pistol with no safety has always been when holstering a cocked pistol. I've been in competition twice where I have had my t-shirt bunch up in between the trigger guard and the kydex as I holstered after loading a round. I felt it and caught it, and now always ensure I pull my shirt tight to my side when holstering but something to consider.
 
My only fear firing a pistol with no safety has always been when holstering a cocked pistol. I've been in competition twice where I have had my t-shirt bunch up in between the trigger guard and the kydex as I holstered after loading a round. I felt it and caught it, and now always ensure I pull my shirt tight to my side when holstering but something to consider.

Exactly. Now ask yourself if you would have felt that after a self defense scenario, when your adrenaline is coursing through you. Most of the ND's experienced when I was on the job were while reholstering after a stressful situation like a chase or a felony car stop. Glock became so popular and every other company tried to jump on the bandwagon and offer their own version. I think striker fired guns are horrible choices for new shooters unless they have an extra layer of safety. The XD offers a good compromise with the grip safety.
 
Lots of good stuff already posted here. I might add that a very close examination of the striker-fired action usually helps folks new to that design get over their worries. Apex Tactical has a couple of good videos they used to help people install their trigger kits, and you can follow along with a field-stripped pistol and get a real good idea of how it all works, and "why" the design has favorable safety characteristics.

Please don't ever holster "fast."
 
If you are facing down a bad guy and have your gun drawn and pointed at him, then rest assured that the safety is off and your finger is on the trigger.

But, that does not mean that the decision has been made to shoot him. Not yet. If you're lucky he'll turn and run like crazy and you managed to NOT press the trigger enough to make the gun fire, then the scenario ended without having to shoot anyone.

Not to quibble, but wouldn't it be better to keep your finger off the trigger until you HAVE made the decision to shoot? If you are still undecided, then IMO you shouldn't have your finger on the trigger...to eliminate a chance of unintentionally firing. With training/practice, it won't add any appreciable time to when you actually do fire.

I do agree, though, that trigger management is something to be more aware of with a pistol like the M&P as opposed to a conventional DA/SA action like a SIG or 3rd Gen S&W.
 
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My .40 came with an ambi TS-I took it off. I carry a Glock 22 on duty and my M&P or 1911(Condition 1) off duty. Our training is draw fast and safe and when it's over, you have all of the time in the world to re-holster. Your brain is always your safety.
 
To answer your original question, the tool is as safe as any inanimate object. I carry the full size .45 (no external saftey) with mag extensions in a crossbreed daily. Lots of helpful info. I hope it helps.
 
My .40 came with an ambi TS-I took it off. I carry a Glock 22 on duty and my M&P or 1911(Condition 1) off duty. Our training is draw fast and safe and when it's over, you have all of the time in the world to re-holster. Your brain is always your safety.

After a shooting, you're not gonna cooley holster. During a felony carstop, you're not gonna cooly holster as you move in to cuff the perp. And you're not gonna have time to even look at your holster as you wrestle with some guy.
 
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