How safe is the M&P without the manual safety
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Bombsaway
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Been carrying both my M&P9c and 45c in condition one for a couple of years now and neither one has the external safety. I carry in a good quality IWB holster and have NEVER had a negligent discharge.
Practice all laws of gun safety every time and you will be perfectly safe as will those around you.
Practice all laws of gun safety every time and you will be perfectly safe as will those around you.
Dragon6
Member
Probably why I chose the 40c with thumb safety. All are correct that the primary safety is your trigger finger and the stuff between your ears. After decades of 1911 shooting I'm more comfortable with the safety. It comes down to training and individual preference. The bottom line is that any pistol is only as safe as its operator.
chuck s
Member
If you think a safety is mandatory or even desirable you MUST place the pistol on FIRE every time you draw the holster even if you never put it on SAFE or it'll be on Safe when you really, really need it on fire. Hence the M1911 mandated grip with the thumb on the top of the lever. After decades of M1911 shooting I assume you're keeping your thumb on top of the safety lever at all times the pistol is in hand.
The M&P frame safety doesn't lend itself to this technique. I've learned to live with this on the M1911 but the lever and therefore the technique is not necessary on most other pistols.
As I gaze upon my eclectic collection of handguns I notice the ONLY pistol I own with a manual safety is my M1911 (actually several). All my modern pistols: M&P9, HK45C, USP9C, P2000SK, Beretta M92G, SIG P6, Glock 19 -- no external safeties. And no need for them. All the HKs are LEM with no levers. The SIG and Beretta are DA/SA -- decock only. You're all familiar with Glocks and M&P.
Not even John Browning thought the frame safety was necessary on the M1911. Trials pistols only had the grip safety. The Army insisted, just like they insisted on the backwards slide mounted safety on the Beretta M92 which begat the M92FS/M9.
-- Chuck
The M&P frame safety doesn't lend itself to this technique. I've learned to live with this on the M1911 but the lever and therefore the technique is not necessary on most other pistols.
As I gaze upon my eclectic collection of handguns I notice the ONLY pistol I own with a manual safety is my M1911 (actually several). All my modern pistols: M&P9, HK45C, USP9C, P2000SK, Beretta M92G, SIG P6, Glock 19 -- no external safeties. And no need for them. All the HKs are LEM with no levers. The SIG and Beretta are DA/SA -- decock only. You're all familiar with Glocks and M&P.
Not even John Browning thought the frame safety was necessary on the M1911. Trials pistols only had the grip safety. The Army insisted, just like they insisted on the backwards slide mounted safety on the Beretta M92 which begat the M92FS/M9.
-- Chuck
That is all right on target. A practiced 1911 shooter will not "forget" to disengage the thumb safety. The muscle memory is to automatic when the gun is held properly .
I can't agree with that. After years with the M1911, the M&P safety feels great to me.
If that is the case, I wonder if JMB ever meant for the gun to be carried in Condition 1. It is hard to imagine carrying a 1911 cocked and unlocked.
I read an interesting discussion on this a while back at
Glock the Right Choice for Civilians? - Page 4 - Handguns and Ammunition Forums
The thread is about Glock but this page is about the 1911 safeties.
g_conway
US Veteran
Not a LEO so Im not really qulified to offer an opinion concerning that stress level vs. training issue. I do; however, have a question. In that same stressful situation, would you also have proplems re-safeing an M&P type gun?
I know that I alwas keep TF out of the trigger when holstering, but I'm also not in a big rush.
Beat Trash
Member
My agency is on it's 6th year if issuing the M&P9. (was about 1,200 guns until we stopped hiring new officers to replace those retiring, ect. due to budget cuts) The T&E guns we received were the first three 9mm M&P's to leave the factory. We tested the **** out of them.
Safety was a huge concern during the T&E process. We dropped guns, skipped guns, banged on guns, anything we could think of to see if the gun would go off (no live ammunition in chamber of course).
I am convinced that the ONLY way to get a M&P pistol to fire is to pull the trigger.
To the OP, there is nothing mechanically unsafe with the design. But just like a Glock, I would not carry the gun in a waist band without a holster covering the trigger guard.
Our issued M&P's do not have an exterior manual safety.
When we transitioned to the M&P we also transitioned to the Safariland ALS holster (level 3 but I don't remember the model number off hand). Reholstering under stress has never been a issue. Be it during a high risk (felony stop), after being involved in a OIS, what ever. All of our officer's inservice training with their pistol involves using their gunbelt. Re-holstering the gun is a non-issue. If the individual has to look at their holster in order to re-holster, than there's something wrong. This is a training issue, pure and simple. For CCW/off-duty usage, a well designed holster that stays open will prevent issues also.
Safety was a huge concern during the T&E process. We dropped guns, skipped guns, banged on guns, anything we could think of to see if the gun would go off (no live ammunition in chamber of course).
I am convinced that the ONLY way to get a M&P pistol to fire is to pull the trigger.
To the OP, there is nothing mechanically unsafe with the design. But just like a Glock, I would not carry the gun in a waist band without a holster covering the trigger guard.
Our issued M&P's do not have an exterior manual safety.
When we transitioned to the M&P we also transitioned to the Safariland ALS holster (level 3 but I don't remember the model number off hand). Reholstering under stress has never been a issue. Be it during a high risk (felony stop), after being involved in a OIS, what ever. All of our officer's inservice training with their pistol involves using their gunbelt. Re-holstering the gun is a non-issue. If the individual has to look at their holster in order to re-holster, than there's something wrong. This is a training issue, pure and simple. For CCW/off-duty usage, a well designed holster that stays open will prevent issues also.
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kbm6893
Member
Putting the gun on safe is not nearly as stressful since the finger that does it is not the trigger finger. Which is why I prefer (and strongly support cops using) a hammer fired gun. When i got the 9MM, we had a choice of the S&W, SIG, and Glock. I recall very clearly the range officer instructing "those without a Glock, thumb on the hammer and holster" when we were going to holster. The maneuver became automatic. With your thumb on the back of the hammer, you cannot fire the gun accidentally, even if you try.
Nobody gets in their car and says 'OK. Now I have to press the brake before shifting into drive" because we do it all the time. No different with a gun. Only problem is that many people buy a Glock because they perceive they don't have to train with it. Nothing could be further from the truth.
kbm6893
Member
I agree. Only problem is that MOST people do not take the time to train as you do. They go into a store and buy a Glock because "the FBI uses them, so they're the best". Then they shoot 100 rounds and call thmselves "trained". For a trained user, striker fired is fine. For a new shooter or a barely trained one "Yea! I passed my 8 hour class! Now I'm trained", they are horrible choices.
I'll bet we could start a whole new thread on some of the misfits we have seen at the shooting range. Think they're trained? Membes of this board are not representativ of gun owners in general. And some on here make me worry, to be honest. On another board, a poster wanted a Glock over a Beretta 92 because he said "I don't have time to maintain my gun, so I want a Glock".
Beat Trash
Member
kbm6893
You have a valid point.
Someone much wiser than I once said:
Some people shouldn't be allowed to have
Guns
Cars
Children
Oxygen
If an individual doesn't have the time or desire to properly train and or practice on how to safely use their firearm, then I question whether they might be better served with a ball bat.
You have a valid point.
Someone much wiser than I once said:
Some people shouldn't be allowed to have
Guns
Cars
Children
Oxygen
If an individual doesn't have the time or desire to properly train and or practice on how to safely use their firearm, then I question whether they might be better served with a ball bat.
RIKMAN
Member
Very safe like any other gun
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Houdini1953
Member
So far after carrying my nearly new M&P9 fully loaded (date of test fire 4/23/10 at factory) it has never gone off unless I pulled the trigger to shoot at the target, I usually shoot it at least twice a week, the rest of the time it is fully loaded and has one in the chamber!
SSW1911
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I think your question is relative to the same concern people have with carrying a 1911 with the hammer cocked, the weapon holstered as a CCW.
Not the mechanical aspects/differences of these firearms, but the confidence in carrying them in a condition ready state.
I think it does come down to a quality holster that covers the trigger, trigger control habits, overall safety habits and finally confidence.
If you buy the M&P without a thumb safety, carry it for a while around the house, unloaded. If it has a mag safety, place an empty mag in place and rack the slide. Throughout the day try drawing the weapon, getting used to it and selecting the best place and cant for carry that works for you. I practiced draw, finger placement control and dry fire a great deal before I took it out the door as a CCW ready to rock.
I did this with my 1911s and my M&P and as I went about my business and even forgot it was there, I realised the bumps, brushes and movements really can't trigger the weapon and made me comfortable and confident carrying both types of firearm.
I live in Ma. and carry the M&P9c as my EDC, without a thumb safety and have had no issues. Plus everyone I know in Ma. get a trigger job done ASAP to get rid of the 10lb pull.
I don't know if you are married, have children or live with kids or others around, but any firearm, especially one without a thumb safety needs to be on your person or in the safe. In a millisecond an innocent curiosity, can go bad with any firearm. But as discussed above these types of firearms do not tolerate the human error effect.
Your question/concern is absolutely legitimate. I think the fact that you are thinking about it is a positive sign.
But with good habits, the right holster and confidence, my experience has been that it is very safe. For me in a SHTF situation I am concerned that the thumb safety would add an extra step at a time I don't have an extra second. But that is me.
I absolutely agree that a firearm without a thumb safety is a bad idea for a new firearm owner. That may be asking for a problem.
Good luck in what ever you choose to do. I do really love the M&P platform and hope you will to!!!!
Not the mechanical aspects/differences of these firearms, but the confidence in carrying them in a condition ready state.
I think it does come down to a quality holster that covers the trigger, trigger control habits, overall safety habits and finally confidence.
If you buy the M&P without a thumb safety, carry it for a while around the house, unloaded. If it has a mag safety, place an empty mag in place and rack the slide. Throughout the day try drawing the weapon, getting used to it and selecting the best place and cant for carry that works for you. I practiced draw, finger placement control and dry fire a great deal before I took it out the door as a CCW ready to rock.
I did this with my 1911s and my M&P and as I went about my business and even forgot it was there, I realised the bumps, brushes and movements really can't trigger the weapon and made me comfortable and confident carrying both types of firearm.
I live in Ma. and carry the M&P9c as my EDC, without a thumb safety and have had no issues. Plus everyone I know in Ma. get a trigger job done ASAP to get rid of the 10lb pull.
I don't know if you are married, have children or live with kids or others around, but any firearm, especially one without a thumb safety needs to be on your person or in the safe. In a millisecond an innocent curiosity, can go bad with any firearm. But as discussed above these types of firearms do not tolerate the human error effect.
Your question/concern is absolutely legitimate. I think the fact that you are thinking about it is a positive sign.
But with good habits, the right holster and confidence, my experience has been that it is very safe. For me in a SHTF situation I am concerned that the thumb safety would add an extra step at a time I don't have an extra second. But that is me.
I absolutely agree that a firearm without a thumb safety is a bad idea for a new firearm owner. That may be asking for a problem.
Good luck in what ever you choose to do. I do really love the M&P platform and hope you will to!!!!
g_conway
US Veteran
Thanks for the answer.
I shoot IDPA as a hobby, and I must say I DO NOT rush the reholster. I enjoy IDPA shooting, but safety is always my only important concern. I had a CCW years ago, and I still remember the Sheriff Deputy that gave me the shooting test asking me "how I thought I would do if I had to use it in a situation." I told him I had no idea as I had never been allowed to train shooting at someone while I was running away from them.
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Bicky Robby
Member
The gun will be as safe as the person operating it, with or without a thumb safety. I have folks get shot using 1911's, which of course has an external saftey because they did not operate and handle the gun properly.
A negligent discharge can happen with any firearm and can be minimzed with attention to safe gun handeling practices.
A negligent discharge can happen with any firearm and can be minimzed with attention to safe gun handeling practices.
I bought both of the M&Ps fullsize and the compact and never could feel comfortable with the "too light trigger-no safety issue" and sold both. I have nine 3rd gen autos now with decocker/safety and feel good with them. I am old and don't change much with the times I guess.
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