How should Performance Center guns be listed in the book?

[JimSupica]

Rick & I are considering revising the layout of the Performance Center gun listings in the book. We welcome comments on the best way to handle this.

CURRENT LAYOUT: In the 4th Edition, Performance Center guns have their own chapter. We attempted to list all PC guns there, although there are a few stragglers listed in the main chapters.

PROPSED CHANGE: Individual PC Model listings will be moved to be listed as Performance Center Variations in the main chapters.

For example, PC Model 500 variations Magnum Hunter and Bone Collector are currently listed on page 447 of the Performance Center Chapter 9. In the revised layout they would be moved to page 293 in Numbered Model Revolvers Chapter 6 following the other listings for the Model 500.

With this change, if you're looking up a model you don't have to decide whether to look in the main chapter or the PC chapter. Also, all variations of a particular model would be gathered in the same place.

Whaddaya think?

 

[Sevens]

I can only speak to the semiautomatic side of the Performance Center and I would be horrified to see any of them as variations of a standard model. It's very, very rare that any of the semiautomatic examples act anything whatsoever like a similar production model.

While it is true that most often the grip unit is the same and a number of small parts are interchangeable, they otherwise are as different and night and next Thursday. They use different barrels, they are absolutely hand-fit, the triggers are on a different planet, their accuracy capabilities are stunning and more.

If you have ever held and experienced a Model 52 and compared it directly to a Model 39, it's much like that but truly even more refined than the 52.

My absolute dream is that we had a SCSW for Performance Center semiautomatic pistols. I've joked before that for us to have one, we'd have to write it. Fact is that there is a lot of mystery with these particular guns and a lot of the records are unknown, we would need the help of the actual men who worked on the crew. And the clock on that is ticking every moment.

 

[Bullet Bob]

I like the new layout idea. Although I'm going to buy the book no matter what you decide to do.

 

[Truckman]

PC guns are mostly too new to find a home in my accumulation (there are exceptions), but I think I would prefer keeping them in their own section...It would seem easier to find what I want without mixing them with non-PC guns......Ben

 

[huthike]

Jim, I like the new layout idea. I find myself going back and forth between the chapters as it is. With the new layout, everything would be in numerical model number order - much easier.

 

[hoytx10]

Personally I agree with Sevens on many points and the PC guns are definitely in a class of their own and therefore deserve their own section. I think it could get confusing with many of the PC semi autos’s as the PC guns can be ambiguously named, for instance a first run Shorty 9 with fixed sights is called a 5906 by S&W but is definitely more like a 6906, so which model number section would it go to? Then I believe the second run Shorty 9’s with adjustable sights are called 6906 by S&W. It would be hard to differentiate between the two and hard for someone to find the specific model they are looking for.

Also, where would the model 945 go? Is that a 3rd Gen pistol, 1911 pistol or would it have a section all to its own?

In any instance, I eagerly await the new 5th addition you are writing and will definitely be buying a copy ASAP!

 

[D Brown]

I'm in favor of the proposed layout change. Simpler is always best for me.

Thank you for soliciting opinions.

 

[Grayfox]

List them under their respective Model number.
Perhaps as a sub section.

 

[dave1918a2]

The proposed layout change sounds like a very solid idea. It would make navigation much simpler.

 

[Rad29]

Hi Jim,

I like the separate chapter for Performance Center guns, both revolvers and semi-autos. I have got used to look at the PC chapter for any PC gun. As folks have said, I will buy a new book either way but I like the way it is.

Bob

 

[Club Gun Fan]

Jim
I like the old format, but, it may be easier for me just looking up the model number. Either way, I'm ordering 4 books for myself.
Don

 

[ADAMOCOK]

Additional option

Keeping current format might best present the history of the Performance Center work.
But adding a brief listing to the Model Number section could aid in tying both sections together and presenting continuity of production.

 

[robvious]

Keeping current format might best present the history of the Performance Center work.
But adding a brief listing to the Model Number section could aid in tying both sections together and presenting continuity of production.

I agree... they should be listed in the model listing to show origin, then highlighted on their own to show pedigree as well.

 

[mchom]

FWIW

I personally like the idea of moving the PC guns to their corresponding original model section but then given their own section there.

Thanks!

 

[Joni_Lynn]

I am used to the current format but I think it might be a good idea to merely add a note in the production section in the appropriate place that the PC model is on page XX.
The new edition will be wonderful either way.

 

[Boulder350]

I use your book at least once a week and spend 98% of my time in the antiques section in the book and on this forum. My first response when reading this thread was - There's a Performance Center section?

As someone who does not know how to distinguish between a performance center gun and a production gun at first glance, it would be nice to have them together in the book. If you decide keep the standard layout it would be nice to have a note like you do on page 114 for the "Schofield Model of 2000 See listing in Performance Center." Maybe add Chapter 9 to the description after the words Performance Center.

I guess I have been to the Performance Center section at least once

 

[madmikeb]

I think that I'm in favor of keeping the format as it is. I have a bunch of PC guns and like to be able to go right to that section.

Regardless I'll be buying a copy of the new book also!

 

[shootingisfun]

Late to cast my vote but I would like to keep it the way it is.

 

[jt1207]

I know I'm late to the party here but I'll chime in. I would prefer to keep it as is. I like to have a section where I can go to see all the PC guns in one place. It seems like there is a group of collectors and aficionados who focus primarily on PC guns. I'm one of them. I only look at the PC section.

Here's an issue: If the PC guns got split up and spread-out through the book, how would someone find them if they don't already know the exact model name of every PC gun? Meaning, if someone wants to see all the PC guns, how do they figure out which ones they are and where they are?

Beyond that, even S&W itself had the PC as completely separate in location and manufacturing. Keeping PC separate in the book would be consistent with how S&W did it.

According to the Jan/Feb 2001 American Hangunner article, Smith and Wesson Performance Center, "The PC manufactures its own guns on its own CNC equipment based on designs and blueprints drawn up by its own engineers," in a completely separate building "several hundred yards behind the main plant." The PC employees even had additional requirements to work there. Said PC business manager Tom Kelly, "we all participate in one or another of the handgun sports. We know what it takes to make a good gun."

I want to thank you for all the work you are doing. This has to be a tremendous undertaking.