How to handle situation

[SanJoseScott]

I was driving home last night and as I approached an intersection known for protesters over the years I noticed a group of people holding a candlelight vigil of some sorts. As I got closer I saw an American flag and some signs that said things like:

Stop Gun Violence
Congress Act Now
No more shootings

I flashed a thumbs down to the lady that waved at me and then I started contemplating different things I could do. My first thought was to get a Pro-2A sign and head out as a counter protest.

Then I started thinking. That would be exactly what they wanted. They standing there with "No gun violence" signs with their little candles and me with my support the 2A sign. That is a no win situation. You gotta hand it to the other side. By framing this as a public safety or anti gun violence argument they have the psychological high ground. The question becomes one of approach (in my humble opinion).

After sitting down a bit and truly thinking it through I flashed on an idea. What if I simply got my NRA hat and joined them. I only needed a sign saying something like "Help the mentally ill", "Protect our kids NOW, train and equip our teachers", or some other message that would not generate conflict but more coopt their demonstration to appear to be in concert with gun owners.

Of course another idea is to be able to send a text quickly to a bunch of people who would immediately show up at that intersection and overwhelm the protest. Kind of like a 2A flash mob approach.

I could go either way I suppose....

 

[66Park]

I love the "stop gun violence" thing. First off, it's people who are violent, not guns. Guns are inanimate objects. Now, if they want to stop violence, who can argue with them? I think we all want to stop violence. I think we all want to stop violence with guns. Sane, law abiding people do not commit violence with guns. Insane people and criminals do. No laws that restrict the rights of sane, law abiding people's access to firearms have ever stopped insane people and criminals from committing acts of violence with guns or have stopped people from obtaining firearms on the black market with which to commit their crimes, so how will any new laws change that? All new laws will do is affect the sane, law abiding people and our ability to defend ourselves against criminals and the insane, which is why they will have no affect whatsoever, except to get some law abiding citizens killed because they have no way to defend themselves.

"Congress act now!" Yes indeed, do SOMETHING even if it has no effect and tramples on the constitutional rights of the people, the taking away of which could have drastic consequences for the country in the future. Make us feel better NOW! Brilliant.

"No more shootings!" Of course, all congress has to do is pass some new laws, and the criminals and insane people will stop shooting people. Wait a minute. Isn't it illegal to shoot people now?

Yes, they have the moral high ground. The fact is, so do we. We want to stop the killing of innocent people just like they do. We just have a much clearer and realistic understanding of the issues and much more practical means of working towards the goal.

 

[venomballistics]

what would be hilarious is to gather up some shooting buddies and tell the protesters "while your opinions are not exactly popular you have the right to voice it. In the interest of protecting you and your rights in this volatile time, we, the armed, will stand guard"
then choose post positions and do exactly that.
unfortunately, while it is not only hilarious and makes a poignant statement ... given the location, it probably wouldn't end well

 

[SanJoseScott]

Venom....that is a truly interesting idea. Join the protest and tell them while we don't agree with your point of view we will defend your right to express your views. Then stand guard around them. Way cool.....

 

[venomballistics]

Venom....that is a truly interesting idea. Join the protest and tell them while we don't agree with your point of view we will defend your right to express your views. Then stand guard around them. Way cool.....

in concept ... its one of my better ones.
problem is ... your all one protester 911 call away from meeting the local SWAT team. So .. dont.
However, do think about it, even laugh about it, perhaps modify it to something that won't lead to a standoff.

 

[SanJoseScott]

Of course. Confrontations, stand offs, and the like are exactly what the other side wants. I'm exploring ways to react that don't feed the frenzy or give the press ammunition (pun intended) but still makes the point.

I am leaning towards participating with them but carrying a more "truthfull" message about stoping all violence, caring for the mentally ill, getting anti-depressants out of our kids, and mutual respect in our society.....Ok, so I had a brief fantasy but you get the idea

 

[Jack Wagon]

I would have gone home and got into my stash of firecrackers. Gone back by, lit up a 500rd of Black Cats, and dropped them out the window.

But that's just me.

 

[4barrel]

WHAT WOULD I DO?

I probably would have shook my head as I drove buy & laughed --thinking about the Jesus looking guy in a white robe holding a repent sign & holding a tin cup while driving through LAS VEGAS in 1973.

 

[Ben Cartwright SASS]

This brings up a point I was thinking about, here on the Smith site we seem to be on a higher plane than other forums where I would get flamed and some really stupid suggestions.

I wear my NRA jacket to Cambridge MA to work almost every day, riding the subway, so far the most that has happened is a few stares. Recently I heard of another NRA member who was wearing an NRA hat and he was "accosted" by a 75 year old woman who started yelling at him that the NRA causes gun violence and they all should be killed. He handled it by mainly listening to her tirade.

I was wondering how I would handle it. First I would try to be civil and try to do what I did when I was lambasted by a member at the train club I belong to, right after Sandy Hook he was blasting us that one one needs an assault weapon. I explained that the only difference between an AR and a mini 14 with walnut stock is the scary features I kept my cool and the other members then looked down on the person throwing the nutty.

I was thinking I would counter their "guns kill" with I have never seen a gun do anything, they are inanimate, they can't kill but people kill. I would bring up Obama's statement that if we can save even one life then we must act, so I would mention toilets and 5 gallon buckets both of which kill over 40 children a year. Or hammers, in 2011 there were 323 killings with rifles of all types, but there were 496 killings with hammers, so to save those people we need to ban hammers!

 

[66Park]

I was thinking I would counter their "guns kill" with I have never seen a gun do anything, they are inanimate, they can't kill but people kill. I would bring up Obama's statement that if we can save even one life then we must act, so I would mention toilets and 5 gallon buckets both of which kill over 40 children a year. Or hammers, in 2011 there were 323 killings with rifles of all types, but there were 496 killings with hammers, so to save those people we need to ban hammers!

Guns save far more lives than they take, so in light of Obama's statement, his gun control proposals make no sense whatsoever. Since statistics show the opposite of what he is implying, if he was serious about saving lives, he wouldn't be doing what he is doing. Unfortunately, the antis don't care a bit for statistics and facts.

 

[rwsmith]

It's automatic

I wear my NRA jacket to Cambridge MA to work almost every day, riding the subway, so far the most that has happened is a few stares. Recently I heard of another NRA member who was wearing an NRA hat and he was "accosted" by a 75 year old woman who started yelling at him that the NRA causes gun violence and they all should be killed. He handled it by mainly listening to her tirade.

If you are not for gun controls you are for killing children. It's as simple as that. It doesn't matter if you haven't harmed anyone in your life.

 

[CoMF]

The best way of dealing with protestors like that, if an opportunity for dialogue presents itself, is to affirm your disapproval of their "solution" while remaining polite, civil and level headed. Counter emotion with philosophy and logic whenever possible and "mirror" their prejudices back at them in a non-confrontational manner. When that doesn't give them pause for thought, you're basically left with little recourse other than to "shake the dust off your feet" and move on. Hopefully, your civility will have left a favorable enough impression upon onlookers that they'll clearly see that firearm owners are not what they're being portrayed as. In other words, be a good ambassador at all times.

ETA: Were I in your shoes, I would have rolled my window down and said: "I agree that Newtown was a senseless tragedy, but I cannot in good conscience agree with your proposed 'solutions.' I believe we can find better ways to mitigate events like that and shouldn't resort to emotion-based arguments. I would talk to you longer, but I don't want to hold up traffic. Good day, and please be safe."

 

[boat770]

This brings up a point I was thinking about, here on the Smith site we seem to be on a higher plane than other forums where I would get flamed and some really stupid suggestions.

My thoughts exactly. There are some smart folks here with a good gift of gab. Only wish I had that sometimes. I learn something 99% of the time I come on this forum and it stimulates the thought process, which keeps that demencia thing away. Now where did I put my glasses?

 

[66Park]

This brings up a point I was thinking about, here on the Smith site we seem to be on a higher plane than other forums where I would get flamed and some really stupid suggestions.

I post information about what is happening in IL on another forum to help get the word out when petitions need to be signed, legislators need to be contacted, and witness slips need to be filled out, but I no longer get involved in discussions about the 2A anywhere but here for the reasons you are suggesting. Because of the way Lee and the other mods run the Smith and Wesson forum, the discussion here is always levels above other forums, not only about 2A issues, but everything else as well, and that attracts a different type of person to the forum.

 

[HankG]

Read an article last week describing how a brain scan can predict your political ideology. When presented with a choice, people who hold liberal values have their brains light up in the left posterior insula, the portion of the brain dealing with EMOTIONS. People who hold conservative values have their brains light up in the right amygdala portion of the brain. The portion that deals with RISK/REWARD and FEAR.

If this study holds any water, what does this mean when you are dealing with a person who is liberal...you are not going to change their mind and activity by challenging them. It will only increase the chemicals being pumped out by the brain, fueling their emotions. Better to walk away and work on the people who write and pass the laws.

 

[SanJoseScott]

I could not agree more with the "higher plane" comments. I too am a member on a couple of other boards but just way too much emotional
"stuff". Here I believe I have found a better place.

The one thing I will be doing is buying a couple of more NRA hats to ensure there is one in every vehicle I own. I would have dearly loved to simply pull out my NRA hat and put it on. Something about wearing a suit, driving a BMW, and then pulling out an NRA hat might have made more of an impression than any words I could have come up with.

Just saying....

 

[66Park]

Read an article last week describing how a brain scan can predict your political ideology. When presented with a choice, people who hold liberal values have their brains light up in the left posterior insula, the portion of the brain dealing with EMOTIONS. People who hold conservative values have their brains light up in the right amygdala portion of the brain. The portion that deals with RISK/REWARD and FEAR.

If this study holds any water, what does this mean when you are dealing with a person who is liberal...you are not going to change their mind and activity by challenging them. It will only increase the chemicals being pumped out by the brain, fueling their emotions. Better to walk away and work on the people who write and pass the laws.

Hmm... I wonder what it shows about independents.

 

[HankG]

Excellent question!

 

[SanJoseScott]

Conservatism and liberal are philosophies. "Indepent" is a political affiliation and would indicate a rather intelligent person who can see the bad in both major political parties and chooses D, none of the above.

Being independent politically also would indicate an above average intellect. By not subscribing to a major political party, the party must earn votes thereby ceeding that a person with free thought, capable of making informed decisions regardless of party, and does not have a kool aid stain on his upper lip is in fact more important than their own members.

 

[venomballistics]

Read an article last week describing how a brain scan can predict your political ideology. When presented with a choice, people who hold liberal values have their brains light up in the left posterior insula, the portion of the brain dealing with EMOTIONS. People who hold conservative values have their brains light up in the right amygdala portion of the brain. The portion that deals with RISK/REWARD and FEAR.

If this study holds any water, what does this mean when you are dealing with a person who is liberal...you are not going to change their mind and activity by challenging them. It will only increase the chemicals being pumped out by the brain, fueling their emotions. Better to walk away and work on the people who write and pass the laws.

I like that bottom line.
helps to keep the frustration to a minimum by applying ones efforts surgically and decisively.... if it weren't for the fact that the same psychological demographics apply to the lawmakers too.

not too long ago I was dinged for voicing some of my thoughts born of frustration ... I have plenty of frustration with my wife on some of these issues.
not so much acceptance of guns on a global scope. The devil is in the details. Its the details of the definitions that cause the greatest volumes of grief.
So I took her to the range with my 1911 and taught her how to operate and make effective use of this arm.
on the way home she's sharing thoughts and feelings about how fun it was and then she said, "At least it (1911) isnt a semi automatic" ... >blink< >blink<
I love the woman and Im honest with her even though I know it would have been nice and easy to leave her blissfully ignorant. And THATS when the fight started.
We all see the news speak of semi autos while showing footage of class 3's and call bull on it ... the uninitiated dont know to call bull and take the medias word over yours every time. Semi autos spray zillions of bullets in seconds for mowing down school yards and mall shoppers in their minds and you will not find it easy to change that perception.
it was a two year struggle ending in an ultimatum.
Though I maintained uniformity in truthful and accurate definitions she kept gravitating to the media poisoned load of bull until such time as her questions of my honesty began to extend though to other things .... I started loading up my car telling her how I will not live with constant suspicion and distrust when im not the one feeding her bull. Nor will I spend the rest of my life calmly explaining these things over and over like a reoccurring nightmare only to start the whole fight from square one the following day for her refusal to accept even solidly demonstrated, proven, and cross referenced truth. The breaking point was her questioning the correct installation of a car battery?!?! yeah ... the poison was spreading.
This is why I really don't care for the debate method ... its taken me years on one single individual and nearly became quite costly.
Say it with actions if possible, talk is cheap and useless when working around this media poisoning