How would you describe this shotgun?

[gizamo]

This one caught me by surprise. Some guns have a certain look or acquired taste. My interests run all the way back into the 1700's with smoothbores and rifles. Own some originals all the way back to the 1820's.

This one has some things about it that are hard to define, but make it attractive to a discerning eye...

What is it about this gun?

 

[HGWT]

Is that a red letter winchester?

 

[gizamo]

No, It was a gun manufactured for Montgomery Ward for about a year, if I'm getting my research right. Figure about late 1951. Kessler is my best guess so far.

But, the thread isn't about who made it...It's about what makes it look so right. This isn't going to be easy for some folks as it's about some pretty oddball perceptions on what makes a smoothbore work.

 

[P&R Fan]

Checkered pistol grip and 2-way break open lever?

 

[HGWT]

Well that is the first single shot with a solid rib that I've seen.

 

[gizamo]

Hmmm,

Think about wrist, how it drops...and high angling combs.

 

[gizamo]

Well that is the first single shot with a solid rib that I've seen.

Great eye...!!!! and correct on that point....

 

[Andy Griffith]

Looks a lot like my Iver Johnson Champion to me (yes, it has a rib). However, mine doesn't have the curl (it isn't a full Schnabel) on the front of the forearm though.
Could it possibly be an I.J. that was contracted to Montgomery Ward? Kessler stuff is typically much more foreign looking...(since it was imported), or did they buy out the remnants of the I.J. company? I see that you didn't show us the side of the gun with the lettering- was that on purpose?

There is something about the Champion, Cherokees and the Stevens 1929's that look "period" and "classy" to me.
I'm willing to bet that it's older than 1951. Any marks on the interior of the receiver or barrel lug?

 

[gizamo]

Andy....again you hit it on the head. But I'm going to post a picture and ask you to define why...give me a few minutes, Amigo...

 

[Big Cholla]

gizamo: It is a Stevens/Springfield Model 94 (?) made for Montgomery Wards under the 'Western Fields' name. It is a quality single shot. It also has an automatic ejector. I have one with a 30" full choke barrel. Originally it had a case-hardened and colored receiver and a deep blued barrel. The solid rib was a Western Fields feature. The Stevens/Springfield versions did not have the raised rib. Mine is in about the same condition as yours. It is a goose-getter like you wouldn't believe. It will kill geese so high that they needed an IFR clearance to fly that high . I needed a shop job recently, so I refinished the stock and the forearm. I will dig it out of the deep storage safe and take a picture sometime tonight. ......... Big Cholla

 

[gizamo]

Big Cholla...we are kindred spirits on this....

To Andy, you point about it's origins. Here is a pic of the forestock, I'll be interested if Big Cholla's is the same. How do you describe the forestock?

 

[bigolddave]

I believe that may have been a special trap model. I know I have seen one in a similar configuration, probably from the twenties or thirties. Yup, just checked my Shooter's Bible Treasury, a prime source for info. It shows the same one, with matted rib and full forearm, checkered, for $13.75 in 1929.

 

[gizamo]

The forestock aside...there is something American about hammer fired shotguns, no? That aside, another American feature is in the trigger guard bow...

Note that it is cast and not stamped steel...

 

[Big Cholla]

giz: Mine is exactly the same stock system in checkering, design and forehand Schnabel tip. I just dug it out of the deep storage safe. I will have a pic in a few minutes.

My maternal Grandfather fed his extended family during the depression with this shotgun on wild turkey, quail and pheasants. They were in Southwest Missouri farm country. He told me that one time he was out of lead shot for his reloads, so got a handful of horseshoe nail heads and wrapped them in cheese cloth for the shot load. He said it worked fine "up close". I can find no sign of any damage to the barrel or the choke. ....... Big Cholla

 

[gizamo]

Big Cholla,

In protecting the bores of earlier muzzleloaders, it was common to take a strip of ticking and form a shot pocket. This was often done over a over powder wad. Sometimes they added a overshot card to the mix...

You are of course correct about the design and forehand Schnabel tip. Somewhat European.

What I find interesting is the Southern Mountain influence of the butt stock design and especially at the wrist and comb. Note the drop. Yes, it lacks the squared off trigger bow.

Anyrate, for those that are reading this....we are talking about guns that sometimes sell in the $150 range, locally.

My intent here was to broaden a few horizan's and get folks thinkin' more about the past than what they might find in a modern book of gun values.

It's the History that is interestin'....folks.

 

[Andy Griffith]

I'm not really certain what type or style of forearm is one it...
It is similar to those offered today on new New England Firearms single shots...sort of a trap style. Seems to embody traits of both the beavertail and splinter forends.

If using it for trap or even hunting use, the checkering is going to help hold your hand on it when coming up quickly, and the "semi-schnabel" (for lack of a better word) rounding is a great place for your forefinger to find and make natural pointing easier. I just wish I could remember what the name for that type of tip is...there is an exact name for it...seems I saw it in The Shotgun Book written back in the 1940's- wish I still had that book.

Also, the high rib and the stock comb is like that of a trap gun, but isn't so high as to prevent it from being used as a field gun.

All the best traits in one piece.

I don't have anything else to add- maybe I've missed something....

 

[Big Cholla]

giz: Ok, I'm not very good at pics, but here are a few:

 

[perrazi]

those were made in 410 also. my grandfather had one and was the first shotgun i ever fired. the hammer was so hard to pull back, he had to do it for me.

 

[Big Cholla]

giz: Mine is roll marked on the left side; "WESTERN FIELD" and under that "Model 19". The barrel is roll marked; "-12 GA CHOKE BORE. BARREL AND LUG FORGED N ONE." I have always marveled at the great 'figure' in the butt stock walnut. Can you imagine a shotgun selling today at the equivalent of the 1930 price of $20 with that good looking of a walnut stock? And equally startling to me is that it has an automatic ejector. ......... Big Cholla

 

[gizamo]

Big,

Yep...that's the one

You and me...that make two! What can I tell you about the history of the design. What most folks lose in the translation is that this is not a unique and unusual leap forward in smoothbore's. There are many things that come into play.

Believe it or not folks, Centerfires followed caplocks, rocklocks, and matchlocks....

Sometimes the price in speed of ignition wasn't worth the bother....