HP-38/Win-231 What are they good for? And they are not the same.

[MMA10mm]

running iron:

I almost never have trouble with reduced loads using W231 - but I've not shot them much outdoors in the cold. It's very possible the issues you observed are temperature-related. You could try upping the load a bit (I use 5.6grs of 231 with a 230gr, and I know that 5.7grs has a huge following with that bullet/caliber combination) or you could try a magnum primer. (If it's coldness related the mag primer should fix it.)

 

[smokindog]

Let's see if anyone is watching this old thread I just started reloading 45 ACP and found the first difference in load data I've seen for these powders!!!!! I wonder if it's a misprint in the 9th edition of Hornady, pg 851 for 200 gr 45 auto???

Absolutely every handgun caliber I load for and no, they are not the same. They have different names.

Maybe not the best for all bullet weights and calibers but I use it for 32, 380, 9, 38, 357, 40, 45 and it works for me.

I do have other powders but for general range blasting I like it.

 

[Cdog]

Nothing wrong with resurrecting older threads. It was before my time here, so it's new to me.

W231 and HP 38 are indeed the same, rebranded powder.

I still keep it in stock, but I prefer "Universal" powder in most apps.

Universal is near identical in burn rate and application with Unique. The Universal meters much better and burns more efficiently than the flaky ole standard Unique.

If I were to recommend something other than Universal for general purpose use, it would be W231/HP38.

 

[smokindog]

I sent an email to Hornady questioning the data I found in their manual. IF I hear anything back, I'll post!

I've also got WSF and Power Pistol that I'll be working with!!! It's all about availability right now I'm set up to load 9, 40, 45 and 45LC

Nothing wrong with resurrecting older threads. It was before my time here, so it's new to me.

W231 and HP 38 are indeed the same, rebranded powder.

I still keep it in stock, but I prefer "Universal" powder in most apps.

Universal is near identical in burn rate and application with Unique. The Universal meters much better and burns more efficiently than the flaky ole standard Unique.

If I were to recommend something other than Universal for general purpose use, it would be W231/HP38.

 

[blujax01]

I started reading this thread and thought that Skip was back! I do wonder where he got off to. One of the smartest dudes I've ever read.

 

[forestswin]

Skip

Many times when current thread topics are "slow" I've just gone to Skip's profile and read his old posts. Learning quite a bit from them

 

[J. R. WEEMS]

Have never had a grain of Bullseye on hand. For the range, 231 got the call for just about everything that wasn't a hunting round. Years ago when I had to teach myself to handload, I just read too many stories about mishaps with Bullseye. It's ALWAYS the powders fault-- Of late, since you just don't see any W231 around, anywhere, I have been using a lot of Red Dot and saving my 231--- Starting to see a tad more Winchester powder around, but still no 231-- I wont run our any time soon, but then I have been loading a lot more these days than the last couple years.

 

[J. R. WEEMS]

running iron:

I almost never have trouble with reduced loads using W231 - but I've not shot them much outdoors in the cold. It's very possible the issues you observed are temperature-related. You could try upping the load a bit (I use 5.6grs of 231 with a 230gr, and I know that 5.7grs has a huge following with that bullet/caliber combination) or you could try a magnum primer. (If it's coldness related the mag primer should fix it.)

I used to have two loads with 231 & the 45-- one for Summer, and one for Winter-- Just for the range mind you.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

W231 is on of the powder of my powder trinity. I feel it's good for everything I load from the .380 Auto all the way up to the 45 Colt. (with a whole bunch in between)

 

[Gunsnwater]

Why no love for the red dot? Feeds most of my pistols and all my shotguns.

 

[mkk41]

Why no love for the red dot? Feeds most of my pistols and all my shotguns.

I used to use 5.0grs Red Dot and a 200gr H&G bullet for many , many years. However , I found that the smaller flake W-231/HP-38 flowed better thru my powder measure of my Dillon.

And even though they are the same powder , it always seems the Winchester-brand package is marked $1-$3 a pound higher that the Hodgdon.

Same with W-296/H-110 and H-414/W-760.

 

[Harrison]

Except for availability, I am curious as to why people would use 231 over HP38. Where I live and/or ordering on line HP38 is generally cheaper, and they are the exact same powder. They even come in the same bottle. Hodgen just slaps a different label on HP38. Hodgen admits they are the same powder. I guess putting on a label that says Winchester makes 231 worth a couple $$ more a pound.

 

[hotrod150]

I question the statement that W231 & HP38 are exactly the same powder. My old Speer book #10 generally shows .1 gr less charge of HP38 than of W231 for about the same velocity in 38 spl loads. For the 357 with 158 gr swaged SWC, it shows max 5.4 gr W231 for 989 fps but only 5.0 HP38 for 932. Also the charge chart for my RCBS Little Dandy powder measure shows a .1 grain difference in charge weight between the two for some (but not all) of the rotors.
I have used W231 for most of my handgun reloading, in 38 spl 9mm & 45 acp. I used Unique for most of my 45 colt loads. 231 seems cleaner and easier to measure, I would prefer to keep using it but have considered switching to the "identical" HP38 based on what I've read here. Unfortunately I haven't found either powder for sale locally- called three gun shops & Wholesale Sports and went to a gun show yesterday--no luck.

 

[Rule3]

I was so much younger when this thread was started

Over and Over again.

THEY ARE EXACTLY THE SAME POWDER!

 

[Bkreutz]

I question the statement that W231 & HP38 are exactly the same powder. My old Speer book #10 generally shows .1 gr less charge of HP38 than of W231 for about the same velocity in 38 spl loads. For the 357 with 158 gr swaged SWC, it shows max 5.4 gr W231 for 989 fps but only 5.0 HP38 for 932. Also the charge chart for my RCBS Little Dandy powder measure shows a .1 grain difference in charge weight between the two for some (but not all) of the rotors.
I have used W231 for most of my handgun reloading, in 38 spl 9mm & 45 acp. I used Unique for most of my 45 colt loads. 231 seems cleaner and easier to measure, I would prefer to keep using it but have considered switching to the "identical" HP38 based on what I've read here. Unfortunately I haven't found either powder for sale locally- called three gun shops & Wholesale Sports and went to a gun show yesterday--no luck.

I watch the internet sources constantly. Friday I received 10# of 231 which I had ordered the week before from here http://www.natchezss.com/Category.cfm?contentID=productDetail&brand=WP&prodID=WP2318&prodTitle=Winchester%20231%20Powder%20-%208%20Pounds

They're out of stock now, but you have to keep a constant watch until you find what you want. I don't think I have to look as often now (feel I'm set for a while at 4.8gr per round). I'll casually look to keep a feel on what's available and where the pricing is going on components but I don't feel as concerned as I was. Keep looking, it's out there, it pops up when you least expect it.

As an aside, Natchez has over 2 pages of "in stock" powder. http://www.natchezss.com/category.cfm?category=6&outOfStock=0&orderBy=&startRow=51

 

[mkk41]

I question the statement that W231 & HP38 are exactly the same powder. My old Speer book #10 generally shows .1 gr less charge of HP38 than of W231 for about the same velocity in 38 spl loads. For the 357 with 158 gr swaged SWC, it shows max 5.4 gr W231 for 989 fps but only 5.0 HP38 for 932. Also the charge chart for my RCBS Little Dandy powder measure shows a .1 grain difference in charge weight between the two for some (but not all) of the rotors.
I have used W231 for most of my handgun reloading, in 38 spl 9mm & 45 acp. I used Unique for most of my 45 colt loads. 231 seems cleaner and easier to measure, I would prefer to keep using it but have considered switching to the "identical" HP38 based on what I've read here. Unfortunately I haven't found either powder for sale locally- called three gun shops & Wholesale Sports and went to a gun show yesterday--no luck.

The manufacturer , St. Marks Powder Co* div of ATK says so.
Data differences are due to normal lot to lot variations and differences test equipment and methods , atmospheric conditions and publishers safety factors.

* - used to be owned by Olin Chemical Co , Winchesters parent company.

 

[Nevada Ed]

At least the HP 38 bottle gives you a few loads on the
front of the bottle.

Its, got to be better !!

 

[Rule3]

Since around 2006, they are the same other than you pay more for the Winchester name

H110=W 296

As are:
W540 = HS-6
W571 = HS-7
W760 = H414

(borrowed from Arch from the other hang out)

 

[SMSgt]

I question the statement that W231 & HP38 are exactly the same powder. My old Speer book #10 generally shows .1 gr less charge of HP38 than of W231 for about the same velocity in 38 spl loads.

Therein lies the problem. Things change. My Speer #9 doesn't even list 231, only the older 230. Nowadays, 231 and HP-38 are one and the same.

 

[TAROMAN]

I have always only used 231/HP38 for 38 Special loads.
Recently tried 5.0 gr under a 200 LSWC in .45 Auto.
OMG is it accurate in my 625!
May make me give up on Bullseye.