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I Finally Got a First Model Schofield!
- Thread starter wlw-19958
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Congratulations Webb,
You are probably aware that this Schofield is one of the 25 that was once fitted with a Kelton thumb safety. I have two of these in my collection, one like yours where it has been removed, the other still with the Kelton. Enjoy the Schofield and have fun learning about the Kelton.
Petter
You are probably aware that this Schofield is one of the 25 that was once fitted with a Kelton thumb safety. I have two of these in my collection, one like yours where it has been removed, the other still with the Kelton. Enjoy the Schofield and have fun learning about the Kelton.
Petter
Very nice, just some minimal normal wear. Wish I had one.
OP
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Hi There,
Thanks for the response! Yes, I noticed the tell-tale signs of the
previously installed Kelton Safety. A while back, I asked for info
on Kelton's Safety device but no one responded. All I have seen
are pics on-line and in a couple of S&W books I have.
I haven't seen anything on how it worked specifically and what
the inside of the altered guns looked like. I have Kelton's patent
drawing but it lacks quite a bit on detail in the way this device
was applied (except in a very general way). I didn't know about
the 25 test revolvers.
Are there any books or articles on the Kelton Saftey Device?
Cheers!
Webb
Thanks for the response! Yes, I noticed the tell-tale signs of the
previously installed Kelton Safety. A while back, I asked for info
on Kelton's Safety device but no one responded. All I have seen
are pics on-line and in a couple of S&W books I have.
I haven't seen anything on how it worked specifically and what
the inside of the altered guns looked like. I have Kelton's patent
drawing but it lacks quite a bit on detail in the way this device
was applied (except in a very general way). I didn't know about
the 25 test revolvers.
Are there any books or articles on the Kelton Saftey Device?
Cheers!
Webb
kev74
Member
I like it!
I’ve been after one of these for a while. Several years actually. Every time I find one it’s just over my budget. Congratulations on a beautiful piece of history.
45NUTT
Member
Did you also buy some lottery tickets?? I like it a lot.
65Whelen
Member
Very cool, I find these Schofields fascinating. Congrats on your find.
Webb,
I have not been able to find much information about the Kelton safety. What is know is that the Ordnance department fitted 25 revolvers with the device which was invented by Col. John C. Kelton.
Look at Neal & Jinks book "Smith & Wesson, 1857 - 1945" on page 219 for additional information.
I have not been able to find much information about the Kelton safety. What is know is that the Ordnance department fitted 25 revolvers with the device which was invented by Col. John C. Kelton.
Look at Neal & Jinks book "Smith & Wesson, 1857 - 1945" on page 219 for additional information.
SLT223
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What year was that produced? The amount of blueing and crisp edges is impressive for something that old. I know nothing about them, but that looks pretty good for something well past 100. I’m comparing that to most early first gen SAA’s I’ve seen.
OP
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Hi There,
Yes, I have read that section but it isn't very illuminating. Some-
where there is a document that is the source of this information.
I would like to know and see the document and learn what was
the original reason for the test and the outcome.
When one reads the specification part of the patent, one finds
out the Kelton Safety was a safety that had to be depressed
along with pulling the trigger in order for the gun to fire. From
the patent application:
"The danger of unintentional or premature discharge of a weapon
is always considerable, and with mounted men using the pistol
in hand-to-hand conflict there is always danger to comrades in
the ranks by the premature discharge of weapons ...
In order to avoid the danger, I arrest the movement of
the hammer when at full-bent [cock] by a device which ...
renders the combined operation [of the] for[e] finger and
thumb necessary to discharge the weapon."
The images I see of the Kelton Safety, the "Safety" is always
on the right-hand side of the revolver. Therefore, in order to
operate this safety, revolver would have to be held it in the left
hand. It is my understanding that in the Cavalry, the left hand
was used to control the reigns of the bridle. So In my mind, this
would severely limit its usability in the Cavalry.
Cheers!
Webb
Yes, I have read that section but it isn't very illuminating. Some-
where there is a document that is the source of this information.
I would like to know and see the document and learn what was
the original reason for the test and the outcome.
When one reads the specification part of the patent, one finds
out the Kelton Safety was a safety that had to be depressed
along with pulling the trigger in order for the gun to fire. From
the patent application:
"The danger of unintentional or premature discharge of a weapon
is always considerable, and with mounted men using the pistol
in hand-to-hand conflict there is always danger to comrades in
the ranks by the premature discharge of weapons ...
In order to avoid the danger, I arrest the movement of
the hammer when at full-bent [cock] by a device which ...
renders the combined operation [of the] for[e] finger and
thumb necessary to discharge the weapon."
The images I see of the Kelton Safety, the "Safety" is always
on the right-hand side of the revolver. Therefore, in order to
operate this safety, revolver would have to be held it in the left
hand. It is my understanding that in the Cavalry, the left hand
was used to control the reigns of the bridle. So In my mind, this
would severely limit its usability in the Cavalry.
Cheers!
Webb
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OP
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Hi There,
Well I finally received my Scofield First Model and I disassembled it
and took pics of some of the modifications made for the Kelton Safety.
On a different note, the trigger was "modified" by adding solder to the
bottom to reduce the depth of sear engagement. It is an interesting
solution that wouldn't have occurred to me.
Cheers!
Webb
Well I finally received my Scofield First Model and I disassembled it
and took pics of some of the modifications made for the Kelton Safety.
On a different note, the trigger was "modified" by adding solder to the
bottom to reduce the depth of sear engagement. It is an interesting
solution that wouldn't have occurred to me.
Cheers!
Webb
Attachments
Very nice Schofield Webb,
The Kelton device is one of those extremely rare features that requires many hours of research to confirm authentic. Pretty difficult to accomplish since so few were made.
There are several altered Schofields out there because of the increased value (a lot more $) of having the device.(professional fabrication would be focused on these.
A quick search I found 6 in about 10 mins. Only 25 manufactured? There should be extremely few if any left.
Notice in the photos a distinct difference in the device? Which one if the 3 is authentic? They are all different. To me following Arsenal alterations that I have seen and documented this doesn’t sit well. They should be identical in every way and the internal workmanship should be top notch. It should actually look like it was performed by the factory.
Murph
The Kelton device is one of those extremely rare features that requires many hours of research to confirm authentic. Pretty difficult to accomplish since so few were made.
There are several altered Schofields out there because of the increased value (a lot more $) of having the device.(professional fabrication would be focused on these.
A quick search I found 6 in about 10 mins. Only 25 manufactured? There should be extremely few if any left.
Notice in the photos a distinct difference in the device? Which one if the 3 is authentic? They are all different. To me following Arsenal alterations that I have seen and documented this doesn’t sit well. They should be identical in every way and the internal workmanship should be top notch. It should actually look like it was performed by the factory.
Murph
Last edited:
OP
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Hi There,
If this is a test, I would say the first one may not be authentic
but I cannot see the checkering pattern of the last one. As far
as I can determine, mine did have the Kelton Safety device. The
"removal" of the safety was just removal of most of the parts
and filling the holes by fitting them with a plug and peening
(riveting) them in place.
I can imagine the path in documenting the original "Kelton Safety"
could be strewn with caltrops. In my searches for information on
the Kelton Safety device I have seen hundreds of images of S&W's
purporting to have an original Kelton Safety. There are imagines
of New Model No. 3's with "Factory Installed" Kelton Safety.
Judging by the proliferation of images on the Web, I agree there
seems to be too may of them out there for there to be only 25
made and some were uninstalled before being sold as Surplus.
There are past auctions showing Schofields with Kelton Safety
installed pulling 30 thousand plus dollars. So I can see the desire
to add one to a schofield in order to increase its value ten fold.
Cheers!
Webb
If this is a test, I would say the first one may not be authentic
but I cannot see the checkering pattern of the last one. As far
as I can determine, mine did have the Kelton Safety device. The
"removal" of the safety was just removal of most of the parts
and filling the holes by fitting them with a plug and peening
(riveting) them in place.
I can imagine the path in documenting the original "Kelton Safety"
could be strewn with caltrops. In my searches for information on
the Kelton Safety device I have seen hundreds of images of S&W's
purporting to have an original Kelton Safety. There are imagines
of New Model No. 3's with "Factory Installed" Kelton Safety.
Judging by the proliferation of images on the Web, I agree there
seems to be too may of them out there for there to be only 25
made and some were uninstalled before being sold as Surplus.
There are past auctions showing Schofields with Kelton Safety
installed pulling 30 thousand plus dollars. So I can see the desire
to add one to a schofield in order to increase its value ten fold.
Cheers!
Webb
I meant to post this profile shot comparing the two. I’m seeing non identical devices. It might be subtle to some collectors but high cost antiques have to be proven legit before I put money down. That’s just my opinion.
Murph
Murph
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Hi There,
Getting back to the revolver itself, All numbered parts match
the serial number on the butt. The sights have been modified
and it now sports a very thick front blade sight and the notch
in the rear sight has been widened to match.
Also, a previous owner stamped their identification mark on the
sides of the back strap. It is easy to imagine some soldier stam-
ping his name "SLIM" but there isn't anyway for me to determine
the date this name was added. Plus, I don't think the Army would
stand for a soldier marking Government Property this way.
Cheers!
Webb
Getting back to the revolver itself, All numbered parts match
the serial number on the butt. The sights have been modified
and it now sports a very thick front blade sight and the notch
in the rear sight has been widened to match.
Also, a previous owner stamped their identification mark on the
sides of the back strap. It is easy to imagine some soldier stam-
ping his name "SLIM" but there isn't anyway for me to determine
the date this name was added. Plus, I don't think the Army would
stand for a soldier marking Government Property this way.
Cheers!
Webb
Attachments
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I think that is a very fine Schofield! Good for you. Is their a visible Cartouch on the grip?
OP
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Hi There,
Yes, there is a cartouche. Someone at some time embellished
the grips by adding a diamond inset into the wood of the grips.
This diamond just nicked the cartouche and sanding weakened
it. And in the process, the escutcheons got reversed. The neat
thing is the diamond will fluoresce under ultra violet light.
See Pics.
Cheers!
Webb
Yes, there is a cartouche. Someone at some time embellished
the grips by adding a diamond inset into the wood of the grips.
This diamond just nicked the cartouche and sanding weakened
it. And in the process, the escutcheons got reversed. The neat
thing is the diamond will fluoresce under ultra violet light.
See Pics.
Cheers!
Webb
Attachments
Last edited:
