I need help again

[jfp357]

I have successfully loaded .45 auto and .38 spec. (maybe a 1000 by now) I just got my new 9mm die set. (Lee) I am getting FTE and FTF. The bullets shoot when they end up in the chamber. I have upped the powder charge by .2 to .3 grains. The min AOL is being watched, and is very close. BUT I am getting FTE & FTF, what else could it be? Thank You....Joe

 

[lebomm]

I think we'll need more info; what powder, bullet wt., are your primers seating fully? Are your FTEs Failures To Extract or Failures To Eject? Do your FTFs fire on a second attempt? Could be a lot of things.

Larry

 

[BennyS]

Are you crimping the rounds?

 

[SteveFi]

also what pistol are you using? do you have problems with any factory rounds - especially hollow points?

 

[Rule3]

We are not clairvoyant Not enough information.

FTE= Fail to eject??

FTF-Fail to fire??

What bullet weight? What Powder? How much powder, What primers, How to you weigh the powder. How do you seat the primer. What is your OAL.

Just minor things like that.

 

[forestswin]

post pictures of the loading rounds too - pics help big time and are you using a quality caliper to measure AOL?

 

[rwsmith]

Might as well.....

Might as well tell us what you are shooting them out of>

 

[Engineer1911]

What reloding manual did you use? You did use a manual?

My vehicle is broke?

Information pending . . . . . . . . . . off to the sunset.

 

[Moonman]

Over All Length (OAL) varies with Bullet Type and Firearm.

Different firearms have different chamber dimensions.

Some firearms have loose/tight chambers, some are shallow in depth.

The 9 MM case may LOOK TO BE STRAIGHT, but it is NOT.

9 MM can be FINICKY to load, keep records on YOUR 9MM's.

One of my 9 MM and a 115 Gr PENN SWC takes a 1.095 O.A.L.,

that round will not chamber in another that requires a OAL of 1.065.

The AMMO is marked per intended firearm.

The 9 is a HIGH PRESSURE cartridge and pressures can SPIKE easily.

 

[Nevada Ed]

Failure to extract and eject can be from a worn or damaged
ejector. This happens to lots of older weapons that have seen a lot of action...............newer weapons should not have any problems.

Failure to feed is incorrect OAL for the load, bullet shape design or magazine, most of the time. I had most of my problems with the HP designs, where the Ball usually always feed if near spec.
This is a problem most of us have with a new auto.........finding ammo that will feed and which will not. Good luck with the correct ammo.

 

[jfp357]

You are all right, not enough information. When I get my second cup of coffee I will repost. I was very frustrated last night. Thanks everyone.

 

[jfp357]

Lets try this again. I am getting failures to feed, and to eject. The ammo will fire after manually working the slide and clearing the jam. I have used accurate #5 and ram shot true blue starting at 4.8 grains then upped to 5.2 grains. The bullet is berrys 115 grn copper plated round nose. The MIN AOL 1.1140, according to Lee`s second edition. The gun is S&W 9mmC, just over a year in use with no trouble with cheap and factory ammo. My loaded ammo is crimped. Maybe I`ll just shoot my .45 auto and my .357 mag they shoot fine.....haha. Thanks for your thoughts.

 

[mtgianni]

If the bullet is missing the feed ramp and hanging up on top you may need a longer cartridge. If it is hitting on the bottom of the ramp and being bounced that is a separate issue.
The FTE is more of a concern. Does the slide go back and the ejector miss the cartridge case or does the slide stick and it takes a hard manual push to eject? If the cartridge fires with that load but does not eject does it feel the same every time? IOW, is there a chance that your powder is bridging and you have light loads? They seem to be seperate issues.

 

[mikld]

Look up the Plunk Test and try it. I never crimp my semi-auto reloads I just remove the flare at the case mouth with a taper crimp die (FWIW, in my opinion a Lee FCD is unnecessary. Adjust the dies properly, don't over crimp, and you won't need one)...

 

[Rule3]

Lets try this again. I am getting failures to feed, and to eject. The ammo will fire after manually working the slide and clearing the jam. I have used accurate #5 and ram shot true blue starting at 4.8 grains then upped to 5.2 grains. The bullet is berrys 115 grn copper plated round nose. The MIN AOL 1.1140, according to Lee`s second edition. The gun is S&W 9mmC, just over a year in use with no trouble with cheap and factory ammo. My loaded ammo is crimped. Maybe I`ll just shoot my .45 auto and my .357 mag they shoot fine.....haha. Thanks for your thoughts.

Your powder charge is too low. Your gun is not cycling properly. I do not list powder charges but you can find the data here, you are also in luck they actually tested a Berrys plated 115. They even give a OAL. Try the min charge.

Load 10 rounds, then try upping it a bit to the middle of the listed test data.

Taper crimping to remove the flare IS crimping

Load Data « Accurate Powders

http://www.accuratepowder.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/WP_LoadSpec_7-2-13.pdf

 

[jfp357]

Thanks......that's what I am doing, upping the charge. By .3 grains. A little at a time

 

[Rule3]

Thanks......that's what I am doing, upping the charge. By .3 grains. A little at a time

Start with the min charge of the data I just linked. It is rare to find your exact bullet tested with the powder you have

If you want to shoot light loads you will need to change your rebound spring. Your problems is not enough oomph to push the slide back, eject the round and feed the next.

You are way below the starting load given by the powder company.

The start load given by Accurate is 5.7 grains of NO 5 for a Berrys 115 gr plated bullet with a OAL of 1.130. It's pretty much black and white.

Lee data is just taken from somewhere else, who knows when?. Lee never tested anything. Lee did not test your BULLET

Speer manual lists 6.0 grains up to 6.7 for a FMJ at 1.135 OAL so yours being plated would be in the low to mid range of that.

So even 5.7 may not cycle the gun depending on how heavy a recoil spring is in there.

The main thing is do not seat the bullet too deep

 

[jfp357]

Thanks everyone.........I will be shooting today or Monday. I will let you know how it goes.

 

[scooter123]

A couple of items.

FIRST AND FOREMOST CONCERNING SAFETY You stated your overall length was 1.114. I hope that was due to dyslexic fingers because 1.114 is BELOW the minimum overall length listed by the Lee manual at 1.140. I'll also point out that those are MINIMUM lengths and there isn't any reason you can't go longer. I typically load 0.020 to 0.030 inch above the minimum and only start to shorten my overall length if I see enough powder staining on my cases to believe that I'm not generating enough pressure.

You may find that increasing your overall length may resolve your feed issues. One thing you may want to do is measure the overall length of any commercial ammunitions that you have found to be reliable. For example if Federal Champion functions perfectly in your pistol compare that length to the length of the ammunition you are building. You may also find it helpful to duplicate the velocity of that commercial ammunition. BTW, in the 40 and 45 ACP I can tell you that Federal Champion uses plated bullets, I've broken some down that had primers inserted sideways to re-use the cases.

Finally, I'm using the Lee Powder measures (have several) and loaded up a batch of 45 ACP yesterday using Accurate #5. It meters quite well in the Lee measures but you can expect a variation of +/- 0.10 grain in your thrown charges. In view of that I would consider 2/10 grain BELOW the listed maximum as the upper limit for a safe charge. Personally I'm a believer in being conservative and include the variation of the powder measure in my consideration of the limiting factors in a load. It's also the reason why I run my overall length OVER the minimum listed. This means I think that you should treat 5.7 grains as a maximum load with Accurate #5 unless you are willing to hand weigh each charge individually. Good news is that a 5.7 grain charge should yield you about 1100 fps and that should cycle your pistol properly.

PS; you didn't mention WHAT pistol you were shooting and this can be a factor. While it may seem counter intuitive because they are smaller I have found that the compact and very compact pistols so popular right now need an ammunition that is a bit "hot" in order to function well. To be blunt, Federal Champion is the weakest ammunition that I've found to function well in these compacts and with some it may be possible that some may require the use of Speer Lawman. The issue is that as the barrel gets shorter so dies the recoil spring system and in addition the slide "overrun" is usually reduced. End result is that the extreme compacts can be quite fussy about ammo and need to have magazine and recoil springs changed out rather frequently. For example I would suggest that those shooting a Shield or XDS consider new springs every 800 rounds downrange.

 

[jfp357]

I made it to the range today! click,bang.......click,bang...etc. Is a wonderful thing. Out of 14 rds I had one failure to feed. But that round reloaded did cycle and fire. I went to 5.4 grains of Accurate #5 with an AOL of 1.140. However both magazines loaded with 7 rounds on the last shot the slide did NOT stay open. Thanks for all your help. Scooter123 yes that was a typo.

 

[SMSgt]

Any chance you resting your thumb on the slide lock when shooting? That can cause it to not work.

 

[Rule3]

I made it to the range today! click,bang.......click,bang...etc. Is a wonderful thing. Out of 14 rds I had one failure to feed. But that round reloaded did cycle and fire. I went to 5.4 grains of Accurate #5 with an AOL of 1.140. However both magazines loaded with 7 rounds on the last shot the slide did NOT stay open. Thanks for all your help. Scooter123 yes that was a typo.

Once again. You are still below the start load. The slide will not lock back if there is not enough energy to drive it back.

Accurate did the testing for YOU why do you not believe what they publish??

Use the min start load or heaven forbid a little more.

 

[jfp357]

Yes Rule3.....maybe a little more

 

[gwpercle]

The 38 special and 45 acp are reloader friendly. The 9mm seems to enjoy causing trouble. I've got a Walther P-38 and a Taurus PT- 92 that just refuse to like the same cast bullet loads and I've about given up fooling around with them and gone back to shooting my S&W model 64, she likes everything that fits the cylinder. 9mm's are finicky at best.

Good luck with your 9,
Gary

 

[mikld]

Once again. You are still below the start load. The slide will not lock back if there is not enough energy to drive it back.

Accurate did the testing for YOU why do you not believe what they publish??

Use the min start load or heaven forbid a little more.

The starting loads aren't just some random numbers some tech. thought he'd post, they are tested loads. They're there for a reason. I haven't had any stove pipe failures from starting loads, but plenty malfunctions if I start lower...

 

[scooter123]

I won't fault jfp357 for starting light. He was using the load data provided in the Lee Manual.

BTW, if you compare the data in the Lee Manual to the data Accurate provides for a Ranier 115 gn. plated bullet you'll see a match. I also suspect that particular data set is an ERROR. Because if you scroll down to the 124 gn. Berry's and Ranier data sets you'll find a near exact match. Having compared Berry's 230 gn. RN and HSM 230 gn. RN bullets using identical loads of SR7625 I got velocities that were withing 10 fps. Check a bit deeper and you'll find the Lee manual shows a 4.8 gn. start and 5.5 gn. max load for a 147 grain plated bullet. Sum it all up and I suspect that someone transposed some numbers incorrectly for that 115 grain Ranier load data.

Fortunately in this case the error was in the direction of a light load, however there is a lesson to be learned here. That is when you are looking at a new load it's a VERY GOOD IDEA to check multiple reference sources. While they often won't square up exactly most of the time they will usually be in the same ballpark.

 

[jfp357]

Thanks for all of your help!!

 

[adams484]

As to more info...

I am getting FTE and FTF. The bullets shoot when they end up in the chamber.

Take a look at the FTF cartridges at the firing pin indentation. Let us know how deep it is. Is it the same as the fired ones or less or non existent.

What do you mean "when they end up in the chamber? Are you having failures to go into battery? If so are you at max COL? Most load books list Max COL it doesn't mean you have to have them at that just not over it.

Hope this helps in diagnosis.

 

[adams484]

If the bullet is missing the feed ramp and hanging up on top you may need a longer cartridge. If it is hitting on the bottom of the ramp and being bounced that is a separate issue.
The FTE is more of a concern. Does the slide go back and the ejector miss the cartridge case or does the slide stick and it takes a hard manual push to eject? If the cartridge fires with that load but does not eject does it feel the same every time? IOW, is there a chance that your powder is bridging and you have light loads? They seem to be seperate issues.

These are some good questions that I would like to add to. Do you have a bullet puller? The first thing to do with a load that doesn't cycle completely is to grab a representative sample and pull them down and re-weigh the powder for consistent or correct powder drops.

As to ejection sometimes you can tell by the ejector marks in the case.