I now have the perfect long gun survival battery, I mean it this time! (pic)

[GatorFarmer]

Originally posted by canoeguy:
Gatorfarmer,

I have owned and enjoyed EBR's in the past, I have owned AK's, AR's, FN's, M1A's, etc, and they were fun and eye catching, as well as great investments. I sold all of mine a few years ago to pay for my wifes college and seminary education, now she is the breadwinner, and now I play on my Navy retirement!

I'd love to have another AR-15, but for the cost of one AR and 1000 rounds of ammo, you could assemble a full survival batterry. I paid $538 (with two boxes of 30/30 cartridges)out the door Saturday for the 30/30 and a .38 Special M&P revolver, was offered a pump shotgun (Winchester Model 1300) for $190 from a customer in the store. If I had bouhgt the shotgun, my total cost for a three gun battery would have been $728. Leaving lots of money for ammunition for above. I think if I had to buy an AR-15 and 1000 rounds of ammo, it would be at least $2000.

Another consideration about moving around the civilian populace, a guy carrying a 30/30 carbine slung over his shoulder will garner less attention than a guy carrying an AR-15.

I agree, for combat, none of these weapons I have will do, but I don't intend to engage in combat if at all possible. Food gathering and protection from evil minded people are what I have in mind.

The downside to ARs is indeed that they can tend to be expensive. I made sure to have one for every family member (including children), but I have "issues" that stem from spending my formative adult years as a slumlord in a decaying midwestern city.

Ironically, I'm now a homemaker and my wife is in the Navy. Everyone's financial ability will differ.

Where I currently reside, an M4 clone equates to "good guy".

If you google "Ferfal" and "Argentina" you'll find some advice from a guy who went through Argentina's economic collapse and subsequent increase in crime.

I have doubts about the ability to gather food via hunting if everyone is out and about with the same idea and an empty stomach. I base this on noticing that the deer and other animals are harder to harvest further into hunting season - and that's with bag limits and game wardens. If you have the room, you might want to buy some rabbits. Once you have two (a male and a female), you'll soon have more rabbits. They're docile enough and also quite tasty. A claw hammer suffices for harvesting them and never runs out of ammo. Though I do see the utility in being able to harvest animals in a "depression" as opposed to some other possible problems.

 

[GatorFarmer]

Originally posted by straightshooter1:

So, I guess my question is: What situation do you envision where such a survival battery will really be necessary?

Bob

Any situation that would require a firearm for personal defense, and that allows one to have a rifle handy. Rifles do a better job of dealing with threats than do handguns. They're easier to hit with and more powerful. The current "in" thing is to simply use an M4 clone as a house gun. Other than necessitating ear plugs (WHAT? I can't hear you....), they have a lot going for them in that role.

To be fair there's a "split" between "survival" guns as foraging guns and survival guns as defensive items. A .22, shotgun, and centerfire rifle usually suffice for the former, the latter gets more complex.

I suppose if you want scenarios, you could start by reading the Congressional reports about the dangers of an EMP attack or read postings about life in Argentina, the former Yugoslavia, et al once those areas developed problems.

 

[Wheelgunner840]

And then there are always the zombies.....

WG840

 

[straightshooter1]

GF-Not sure about the applicability of Argentina or Yugoslavia to my area.

And, I don't think I'd want to be shooting a rifle in my neighborhood as there are bazillions of people living here, kids, etc. I think if I were using a long gun, it'd be my wife's or my Beretta semiautos with something like 7 1/2s at close range.

I can understand a rifle for self defense in a rural or semi rural area, though.

I still can't imagine something like that happening here.

But, what's an EMP attack?

EDITED: I think maybe you are talking about a nuclear weapon? Unfortunately for me, I don't live far from McDill AFB with SOCOM, etc. If they use such a weapon there, I am afraid I won't be needing any guns or food or meds. Just a dust pan to pick me up.

Bob

 

[GatorFarmer]

Originally posted by straightshooter1:
GF-Not sure about the applicability of Argentina or Yugoslavia to my area.

And, I don't think I'd want to be shooting a rifle in my neighborhood as there are bazillions of people living here, kids, etc. I think if I were using a long gun, it'd be my wife's or my Beretta semiautos with something like 7 1/2s at close range.

I can understand a rifle for self defense in a rural or semi rural area, though.

I still can't imagine something like that happening here.

But, what's an EMP attack?

EDITED: I think maybe you are talking about a nuclear weapon? Unfortunately for me, I don't live far from McDill AFB with SOCOM, etc. If they use such a weapon there, I am afraid I won't be needing any guns or food or meds. Just a dust pan to pick me up.

Bob

Actually, we're going through what happened in Argentina circa 2001 to present in some ways. They were a first world country, then the economy collapsed, inflation became a problem, people went hungry, crime rose, etc. A charismatic leader came to power, and didn't quite fix things. Sound familiar?

Yugoslavia was a nice place once. They used to grow fine tobacco around Sarajevo. Then people stopped getting along and a multicultural/multiethnic country reverted into something else.

5.56mm carbines, with the right ammunition, present less of an issue with overpenetration (through barriers) than do many other choices. Unlike something like birdshot from a shotgun, they still offer sufficient penetration in living tissue.

EMP= electromagnetic pulse. It isn't a conventional nuclear attack, but would suffice to put the lights out for a while. It's sufficiently worrisome that the DoD implemented new standards to harden their facilities against it. It'd be like the 2003 blackout, but nationally, and causing lots of problems to correct.

 

[straightshooter1]

I have some experience with both 5.56 and shotguns with "birdshot."

At close range, the shotgun is deadly. My situation is simply that there are too many people to chance shooting a rifle, though I have 30 or so to choose from.

I still have a hard time believing that there will be such a situation arise that requires me to consider one of them for defense. But, I understand there are many who disagree and are prepared or preparing.

And, if I am wrong, I am already "prepared" having been a rifle shooter and reloader for many years.



Bob

 

[Jeb Stonewall]

You could write a bigggggggg book if you put in all the (what if's) when it comes to what you need in a survival battery.
What would you need if?

1.--You live in the inner city when a Rodney King riot breaks out.
2.--Theres a disaster that takes all power out , and you have gangs roaming the streets looting and killing at random.(Katrina)
4.--There is a terrorist attack that involves terrorist groups going through towns and taking hostages.
Some of these may seem far fetched , but who ever thought that a few terrorists could pull off 9/11?
It's best to prepare for the worst.
Have double the ammo that you think you will need.
Have a (combat) rifle that can make hits out to 300-400 yards.
A 12ga. pump shotgun.
A good centerfire handgun, and a 22 rimfire handgun for the hell of it.

 

[straightshooter1]

See Jeb, that's kinda what I was thinking about.

Making hits with a rifle at 3-400 yards. There's no place where there's 3-400 yards anywhere near my house. My neighborhood is full of houses and people and kids. I have a big "yard" and can talk in a low conversational voice to my neighbors.

Inner city when a riot broke out-why would I be there to begin with? Ain't gonna happen. I've been through a number of riots as a LEO and one of the two in St. Petersburg when certain folks were really upset about an "unarmed child" being killed by a cop (who shot to stop the escapee from running over him). All of these were "up close and personal" experiences. Ain't gonna happen again.

And the Hurricane scenario-the gangs would be in the evacuation areas (if there were gangs). Or, in St. Petersburg's Southside.

It'd take 'em half a day or more to get to my neighborhood, if they could find it.

But, if I lived in an inner city I might be concerned. If I lived where I had to worry about those other things, I'd be (maybe) concerned. Actually, if anyone lives in any of these places, they ought to move.

But, remember, Florida, in any of these situations can declare an "Emergency" and there won't be any legal guns in public places, concealed or otherwise, except for LEO/Military and, therefore, I will just stay home.

But, I have all those you list, and a lot more. I just don't think I need to worry about using them.

Bob

 

[straightshooter1]

Let me be clear. I am not putting down anyone who thinks they should be prepared if some catastrophic event occurs.

I am just interested in figuring out what event could possibly cause ME to need such preparation, given where I live.

Again, I don't see anything wrong with ARs or other rifles for self defense, I can't imagine using one here because (1) I can't imagine needing to use it here and (2) I couldn't, in good conscience, shoot it because of the others in my area.

Bob

 

[crofoot629]

But, remember, Florida, in any of these situations can declare an "Emergency" and there won't be any legal guns in public places, concealed or otherwise, except for LEO/Military and, therefore, I will just stay home.

And you're telling other people to think about moving?

Emory

 

[straightshooter1]

Yep, this is Paradise. The idea of the law, I think, is that people ought not to be out there during an "Emergency" anyway, and if they are, shouldn't be armed.

It applies to law abiding as well as non-law abiding people.

Bob

 

[perpster]

Originally posted by straightshooter1:
Let me be clear. I am not putting down anyone who thinks they should be prepared if some catastrophic event occurs.

I am just interested in figuring out what event could possibly cause ME to need such preparation, given where I live.

Again, I don't see anything wrong with ARs or other rifles for self defense, I can't imagine using one here because (1) I can't imagine needing to use it here and (2) I couldn't, in good conscience, shoot it because of the others in my area.
Bob

Check out this good read. It takes place in Florida:
http://www.amazon.com/Alas-Bab...-Frank/dp/0060741872

http://www.abebooks.com/search...rank/tn/alas+babylon

 

[crofoot629]

The idea of the law, I think, is that people ought not to be out there during an "Emergency" anyway, and if they are, shouldn't be armed.

I'm more of a go where I want, when I want, with my guns kinda guy.

Emory

 

[GatorFarmer]

Originally posted by straightshooter1:
Yep, this is Paradise. The idea of the law, I think, is that people ought not to be out there during an "Emergency" anyway, and if they are, shouldn't be armed.

It applies to law abiding as well as non-law abiding people.

Bob

Yeah, should work as well as the laws against rioting, looting and such in the first place do. Shrug. Until recently it was against the law in nearby D.C. to have a gun period, with a mandatory year or so in jail if you were caught. As is well known, that completely eliminated gun crime and violence there...

The thing that happens when/if the lights go out, is that the 'hood can come to you, you don't have to go to it. Suburbia generally isn't prepared for that sort of thing. (Google Wichita Massacre. Two guys armed with a mere Davis did that since their victims lacked the will to fight.)

Though I actually miss living in crackville. It was better than TV and I could get better deals on Menthol cigarettes.

Where I lived LE response was lackluster at the best of times. (I once sat on hold with 911 for five minutes to report a minor matter...) Reporting something like an attempted murder... eh... someone might come by in an hour or so to see. Attempted rape? Probably won't come out at all.

It's better where I am now, but my learned response is the same - I'm not going to find myself wishing for "less gun" if the need arises that I needed a gun in the first place. 300 meters? Eh. 300 centimeters and it works just as well. Handguns are tools of convenience. One carries them when a rifle would be socially unacceptable. If I'm at home it's a rifle or carbine world.

 

[USAF385]

WHOA! So I checked out your post, and was looking away while the pic loaded... much to my surprise, I turn around to see my rifle!

It's a fine shot!

 

[perpster]

Originally posted by perpster:

Originally posted by straightshooter1:
Let me be clear. I am not putting down anyone who thinks they should be prepared if some catastrophic event occurs.

I am just interested in figuring out what event could possibly cause ME to need such preparation, given where I live.

Again, I don't see anything wrong with ARs or other rifles for self defense, I can't imagine using one here because (1) I can't imagine needing to use it here and (2) I couldn't, in good conscience, shoot it because of the others in my area.
Bob

Check out this good read. It takes place in Florida:
http://www.amazon.com/Alas-Bab...-Frank/dp/0060741872

http://www.abebooks.com/search...rank/tn/alas+babylon

Sorry, the link got shortened and you can't see the name. It's "Alas Babylon" by Pat Frank, originally published in 1959.

 

[canoeguy]

The idea of a survival rifle to me is a tool to be cairried in case of an emergency, like a spare tire in a car. When I go on an extended canoe trip, the rifle is cased and secured to the boat in case of a mishap, along with an ammo box of other survival gear, fire starting stuff, spare knife, handgun, etc, The rifle, survival kit and a spare paddle are tied to the boat.

When traveling by vehicle, the rifle is cased and stowed in the trunk, the survival kit comes along carrying 20 rounds or so of ammo, more if I decide to take to take a .22.

On the fun side, a .22 rifle cairied on a canoeing trip can be used for target shooting in camp, where legal.

A rifle in camp, visible but not brandished, maybe leaning against your gear, may cause criminals looking for easy prey to move on to something easier.

So, to me, a survival rifle is not a battle rifle, just a tool to be used in an emergency that may save your life.

 

[straightshooter1]

GF-the law works quite well. It keeps law abiding folks from being armed in public. I don't intend to violate any laws, mostly because I don't think I will need to.

I am sure the bad guys will give this law the same regard and respect they do all the others.

And, I agree that a rifle is a great self defense weapon. But, it is not a good thing to rely on when there are bazillions of innocents all around.

In just my neighborhood, it is impossible to walk in a straight line and not walk into a house within a short distance. There's no hills, no fields, no nothing but people.

By the same token, if the "bad guys" were coming, I couldn't see them from the front of my house till they were actually here. So, I'd be shooting at a distance of 25-40 feet with neighbors and their houses as backstops.

I could see them from a greater distance out my back door, across the pool and patio. I probably could shoot at them with any of my rifles, but the two schools, which would be the backstops on one part of the rear and the forty or fifty houses that would make up the backstop on the other part, convinces me not to use one.

I think we have two separate "thinkings" about survival guns.

Canoeguy is thinking of survival, plinking, hunting on, for example a canoe trip. So, he takes along a 22 or something similar. Great idea.

GF and others are thinking of weapons to protect their homes when something real bad happens, or to gather food, and to protect themselves while looking for food, etc.

That's fine, too, but it seems an unlikely thing to happen. If it does, I have what I need and have had for years.

My real concern, in the unlikely event to some catastrophic event, will be medicine. That's one thing that is hard to stockpile and, as far as I know, impossible to make yourself.

Bob