I rescued an old 32 HE, but not really sure what it is...

[toad67]

Went out of my wheel house and picked up an old 32 HE, but after reading thru the book and looking on-line, I'm not quite sure what I have, yet. The gun has a 6.5" barrel, serial number 42192 is on the butt, barrel flat and cylinder.
According to the #4 SCoSW, it should be a 1905 2nd change by serial number, but there are a few things that make me wonder.
1- Should there be a small S&W logo, on the left side under the cylinder release?
2- There are no pins under the star extractor.
3- It has a new style rebound slide, rather than the older, frame
mounted rebound spring.
4- Left side of the barrel is marked 32 Winchester, not 32 long ctg.

I see that there was some overlap to the first change, but since this is almost at the end of the second change model, it made me wonder. As I mentioned before, this is out of my wheel house, but for the price, I figured I could give it a new home.
Also, am I correct in thinking that it originally came with black plastic grips and not the sharp shouldered magna's that were on it?
Please, let me know what you think of it, and maybe throw out a value if you're so inclined. TIA for all of your input.

 

[Muley Gil]

You have a .32-20 Military & Police. It is a K frame & would have come with walnut stocks.

The .32-20 has its own serial number range. It was also known as the "Winchester Model".

 

[old tanker]

A mechanically sound .32-20 revolver!! That makes it a shooter and a keeper in my book!

 

[toad67]

You have a .32-20 Military & Police. It is a K frame & would have come with walnut stocks.

The .32-20 has its own serial number range. It was also known as the "Winchester Model".

Again, this is out of my wheel house and confused, but on page 148, it mentions that the M&P's are 32 S&W long, mine is marked 32 Winchester...

 

[erikpolcrack]

I have two S&W M&Ps from that era in 32-20, one round butt and one square butt. The round butt came with black plastic service grips and the square butt with walnut service grips. I enjoy both those great shooters very much. Stay on the lookout for ammo and brass and grab what you can when you can. 32 WCF and 32-20 are the same cartridge, one of the original chamberings of the great Winchester 73 and 92 rifles. Colt chambered several of its revolvers in it as well.

 

[Muley Gil]

Again, this is out of my wheel house and confused, but on page 148, it mentions that the M&P's are 32 S&W long, mine is marked 32 Winchester...

Look on page 150.

These revolvers have different names at different times. Look at the listing for the .32-20 Hand Ejector Model of 1905-2nd Change.

The .32-20 cartridge is known as the .32 Winchester and also as the .32 WCF (Winchester Central (or Center) Fire).

 

[Model19man]

Again, this is out of my wheel house and confused, but on page 148, it mentions that the M&P's are 32 S&W long, mine is marked 32 Winchester...

You do not have a revolver chambered for 32 S&W Long. Your revolver is chambered for 32 WCF. A very different cartridge.

 

[toad67]

Look on page 150.

That's where I found most of the info on the gun. I just didn't realize that it was considered an M&P also. Thanks!

 

[Alk8944]

Your revolver is a Hand Ejector, but all S&W revolvers with the swing out cylinder are hand ejectors, regardless of specific model, frame size or caliber. It was made ca. 1907.

Yes it is a .32 caliber, but not .32 S&W Long as it would have to be to be a .32 Hand Ejector. As pointed out above it is a Winchester Model. These are often referred to as a .32-20 M&P, but stricyly the M&P is .38 caliber. In collectors parlance it would be a Model 1902 because of the round butt. A 1905 would be a square butt. The frame size is a K. A .32 H.E. would be an I or small frame. There were a few of the K frame guns made in .32 S&W Long during this period, but they are extremely rare!

Correct stocks for your gun would be either black hard rubber or checkered Circassian Walnut. If wood they would not have a S&W medallion, and the top of them above the checkering would be concave. Good reproductions of the hard rubber style are available from N.C. Ordnance: Pistol & Revolver Grips Made by NC Ordnance

 

[JP@AK]

toad67

Your .32-20 Hand Ejector (Winchester Model) probably left the factory in 1908, maybe in 1909. I show three of them in my database in the 42000 range that shipped in December, 1908. The highest of the three is 42694.

 

[JP@AK]

Yes it is a .32 caliber, but not .32 S&W Long as it would have to be to be a .32 Hand Ejector. As pointed out above it is a Winchester Model.

Interestingly, there were a relative handful of K frame revolvers, serialized in the .32-20 sequence, that were chambered for the .32 Long. Even more interesting is the fact that the first bunch of them that I know about were serialized in the 43000 range. As far as I know, that bunch were all target models and they shipped in 1909 and 1910. A few more of the .32 Long variants show up in the 19-teens, and at least one of those had fixed sights.

None of this changes the fact that toad67's revolver is, indeed, a .32-20 HE.

 

[toad67]

Thanks for all of the info, Fellas. Apparently, my original research was correct, that it's a 1905 second change in 32-20. It was a bit confusing to me when it was mentioned that it was an M&P, when the book listed those as only in 32 S&W long, but never mentioned the rest of the "Winchester" guns as M&P's. That's the thing about these wonderful pieces of history, the more you learn, the less you realize that you know and the rabbit trails start to come alive....

 

[Brooks]

toad67

Your .32-20 Hand Ejector (Winchester Model) probably left the factory in 1908, maybe in 1909. I show three of them in my database in the 42000 range that shipped in December, 1908. The highest of the three is 42694.

Ya, mine is 42781, and I figure 1908 or 09.
4 inch version. OP's looks like it could be a good shooter, finish gone but no pitting. What does the barrel look like?
Original stocks would look like what I have pictured.

 

[glowe]

Not sure what book you are reading, but the Neal & Jinks book clearly shows the 32 Winchester (32/20) caliber models. That serial number makes it a 32/20 Hand Ejector, 2nd Change according to NJ, and was also called a 32 Winchester Military & Police, 2nd Change, and also a 32/20 Model 1905, 2nd Change. The 2nd Change model was made between 33,501 to 45,200 from around late 1907 into 1909. The 32 Long, except for a few rare K frames from that era, was an I frame, smaller revolver.

I have 41509 and it shipped in 1908, and square butt were concave walnut as shown below.

 

[toad67]

Ya, mine is 42781, and I figure 1908 or 09.
4 inch version. OP's looks like it could be a good shooter, finish gone but no pitting. What does the barrel look like?
Original stocks would look like what I have pictured.

The barrel appears to be in good shape.

 

[JP@AK]

As for the Military & Police designation, here is an interesting fact.

I own a .32-20 HE that shipped with factory pearl stocks and left the factory in June, 1917. It came to me in its original hinged box. As was common, the label inside the box top is in English on the left and Spanish on the right. The English side says, "S&W .32 Hand Ejector Winchester 4 inch." The Spanish side (translated) says, "S&W Model .32 Military and Police - Winchester - (Square Handle) 4 inch."

Why it says M&P in Spanish but not in English is a mystery to me. But this does show that the .32-20 was considered an M&P by Smith & Wesson (at least in 1917).

The end label on the box says, "Hand Ejector 32 Winchester." On the end of the box top it says, "Square Butt."

 

[delta-419]

32-20

You have opened "pandora's box" and you must realize that the cure for 32-20 addiction is where to find your next one. I have six of the revolvers and two Winchesters (1892 & 1873) and still hunt'n. Consider reloading if you don't already. Brass is more easy to find then ready ammo. You got the attention of the "hard core" 32Winchester gang. Welcome to the 32-20 club!

 

[mtgianni]

So Toad, if you want to pass it on as it is soooo much trouble, give me a call. If you're set on keeping it let me know and I will pass on some 100 gr 32 bullets. I'm pretty sure I owe you a favor.

 

[Retired W4]

Watch out toad67, cause now you need a companion rifle to go with your 32-20, like this Savage 23C. Some people like the Winchester.