I thought the .40 caliber was dead?

2009 Ammo Shortage

I walked into the local big box sporting goods store and the only ammo that was available at that time was 40 cal. People were scared Obama was going to "do something". Totally unnecessary. It was a consumer driven toilet paper panic, but bullets. Plenty of 40 was stacked up in boxes on the floor. I had no weapon for it, so I left with nothing. I never forgot that.
 
I bought a Glock 23 with 5 mags in like new condition. I couldn't pass that up. After shooting it, I went after the police trade-ins. I bought two S&Ws and a G22. I kept one of the Smiths and gave the G22 to my son-in-law and the other S&W to my daughter's beau this past Christmas. Of course, I had to make sure they all worked. The G22 shoots a little nicer than the 23, perhaps because it's a little larger gun, and the Smiths shoot real well.
 
I bought my first 9mm in 1971, a M39-2. I really like the curved back strap. Carried a M59 as well. I bought my lil .40 S&W M&P Shield last year. What a handful! I also have a .44 and .45 so the recoil doesn't bother me. It has a very short 3" barrel and is striker fired. It's my usual CC weapon.
 

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AlHunt said:
I don't care for the way .40 shoots, it just has an unpleasant recoil impulse. But it's here for the long run. So many PD trade-ins on the market for short money make it a great SHTF kind of gun. Probably also good for people wanting an inexpensive nightstand gun.
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I'm speaking in general terms here, but let me get this straight.
  1. So 9mm out of a 14-oz or so semiauto is good!
  2. 38+p out of an 11-oz revolver is good!
  3. 357mag is good to go!
  4. 44 special and 44 magnums are good!
  5. 10mm is the bestest!
  6. 40s&w out of a revolver or semiauto of any size or weight is wayyyy too snappy, has an intolerable recoil impulse, and fast and accurate follow-up shots are almost impossible??? 👌

What's hilarious is all of the 10mm pistols coming to the market and how everyone is seemingly ranting and raving about it right now when 99% of ammo manufacturers are loading 10mm to 40s&w like specs, and the other 1% are loading 10mm to be much, much, much more powerful and "snappy" than standard 40s&w for hunting purposes.... Make it make logical sense!

It's all in people's heads. It's a placebo effect, marketing, and herd mentality. When people were told that 40s&w was in, everyone was fine with 40s&w. When everyone saw law enforcement carrying 40s&w, everyone wanted 40s&w. When they were told/indoctrinated into believing that 40s&w was too snappy and to dislike or even hate 40s&w, they convinced themselves that it was all true. Then they hypocritically had no bugs up their buttons when it came to other just as or more "snappy" calibers, shooting/carrying small light weight pistols that are just as snappy, or going to 40s&w disguised as 10mm. It's like it's become cliche and the cool thing to be critical of 40s&w as a canned response.

I own and have fired 40s&w out of an M&P Shield, Sig P239, Beretta PX4 Compact, and a Kahr MK40 and K40. I've fired a plethora of different popular 9mm ammunition and handgun combinations that had more recoil and weren't enjoyable to shoot vs. my experience with shooting 40s&w out of my examples. I've also fired a Springfield XDS in 45 that was popular not too far back that was much worse than any 40s&w I've ever fired. Don't get me started on 357 mag and 44mag. I personally would love to see a blind folded range test where the 40s&w "recoil impulse and too snappy" critics who random platform and caliber combinations, and tell us which they think is 40s&w and which are not. I'd put money on them looking foolish when it's all said and done.
 
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LVSteve said:
The recoil is certainly unpleasant in a Glock 23. I tried my buddy's and didn't like it much. Apparently the S&W M&P is far better at taming the 40 snap.
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23 is the one .40 I still have. The only other one was an early S&W, Sigma or something. Admittedly, my experience is limited. Being a recent convert and acolyte of 45acp, I have no reason to expand my .40 holdings. But it's still far from dead.
 
Well Armed said:
I'm speaking in general terms here, but let me get this straight.
  1. So 9mm out of a 14-oz or so semiauto is good!
  2. 38+p out of an 11-oz revolver is good!
  3. 357mag is good to go!
  4. 44 special and 44 magnums are good!
  5. 10mm is the bestest!
  6. 40s&w out of a revolver or semiauto of any size or weight is wayyyy too snappy, has an intolerable recoil impulse, and fast and accurate follow-up shots are almost impossible??? 👌

What's hilarious is all of the 10mm pistols coming to the market and how everyone is seemingly ranting and raving about it right now when 99% of ammo manufacturers are loading 10mm to 40s&w like specs, and the other 1% are loading 10mm to be much, much, much more powerful and "snappy" than standard 40s&w for hunting purposes.... Make it make logical sense!

It's all in people's heads. It's a placebo effect, marketing, and herd mentality. When people were told that 40s&w was in, everyone was fine with 40s&w. When everyone saw law enforcement carrying 40s&w, everyone wanted 40s&w. When they were told/indoctrinated into believing that 40s&w was too snappy and to dislike or even hate 40s&w, they convinced themselves that it was all true. Then they hypocritically had no bugs up their buttons when it came to other just as or more "snappy" calibers, shooting/carrying small light weight pistols that are just as snappy, or going to 40s&w disguised as 10mm. It's like it's become cliche and the cool thing to be critical of 40s&w as a canned response.

I own and have fired 40s&w out of an M&P Shield, Sig P239, Beretta PX4 Compact, and a Kahr MK40 and K40. I've fired a plethora of different popular 9mm ammunition and handgun combinations that had more recoil and weren't enjoyable to shoot vs. my experience with shooting 40s&w out of my examples. I've also fired a Springfield XDS in 45 that was popular not too far back that was much worse than any 40s&w I've ever fired. Don't get me started on 357 mag and 44mag. I personally would love to see a blind folded range test where the 40s&w "recoil impulse and too snappy" critics who random platform and caliber combinations, and tell us which they think is 40s&w and which are not. I'd put money on them looking foolish when it's all said and done.
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I remember when I first shot .40 S&W I was rather nervous about it because I had heard so many people saying how snappy and unpleasant it was to shoot, so I braced myself expecting a sharp, abrupt, stinging snap to the web of my hand like shooting a lightweight .357 Magnum Snubby with hot loads.

After pulling the trigger and letting off the first shot I was almost disappointed by how little recoil it actually had. Seriously, my Walther PPK/S and Ruger LCP chambered in .380 ACP are more snappy than any pistol I've ever fired chambered in .40 S&W, including an M&P40 Shield.

It would be one thing if the majority of folks who assert that the .40 S&W is unpleasant to shoot were admittedly recoil sensitive and felt that anything with more recoil than 9mm is unpleasant, but like you said, most of the folks who say .40 S&W is too snappy shoot pistols with much more power and recoil.
Granted, I've only fired standard pressure 165gr-180gr .40 S&W loads, so perhaps these people are shooting some 135gr wannabe .357 SIG loads or some overpressure boutique loads by the likes of Buffalo Bore, Double Tap, or Underwood.
 
Well Armed said:
I'm speaking in general terms here, but let me get this straight.
  1. So 9mm out of a 14-oz or so semiauto is good!
  2. 38+p out of an 11-oz revolver is good!
  3. 357mag is good to go!
  4. 44 special and 44 magnums are good!
  5. 10mm is the bestest!
  6. 40s&w out of a revolver or semiauto of any size or weight is wayyyy too snappy, has an intolerable recoil impulse, and fast and accurate follow-up shots are almost impossible??? 👌
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Well, I didn't say any of that, but since I evidently triggered you - I'm glad you "got it straight". Nice work. I don't like the recoil impulse of the .40 S&W. Meanwhile, All my handgun shooting is offhand (that means with only one hand, just so you "have it straight"), including full house 44 mag. I guess I'm not recoil averse.

Well Armed said:
It's all in people's heads.
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No, it's not.

Well Armed said:
It's a placebo effect, marketing, and herd mentality.
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Not remotely

Well Armed said:
I personally would love to see a blind folded range test where the 40s&w "recoil impulse and too snappy" critics who random platform and caliber combinations, and tell us which they think is 40s&w and which are not. I'd put money on them looking foolish when it's all said and done.
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Challenge accepted. My range, 2PM today.
We'll even use your guns and ammo.
 
Recent posts have caused me to wonder if shooting with 2 hands vs 1 hand has anything to do with people finding the 40 unpleasant.

I learned to shoot offhand and really never use my left hand when shooting. Like many of you, I've shot the gamut of sizes and calibers - 9mm mouse guns, .357Sig in smallish guns and so on. My preference is full size handguns.

The .40 is the only one I dislike shooting. Maybe I wouldn't mind it in a larger firearm.
 
AlHunt said:
Recent posts have caused me to wonder if shooting with 2 hands vs 1 hand has anything to do with people finding the 40 unpleasant.

I learned to shoot offhand and really never use my left hand when shooting. Like many of you, I've shot the gamut of sizes and calibers - 9mm mouse guns, .357Sig in smallish guns and so on. My preference is full size handguns.

The .40 is the only one I dislike shooting. Maybe I wouldn't mind it in a larger firearm.
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If you're ever in my area, you can shoot any of my 40s to see if that changes your mind at all. The 4006 is a tank and easy to handle, the glock 35 is more pleasant to shoot than any other glock I've ever shot, my 4.25" m&p is plenty tameable, and I have an ar in 40 as well that is fantastic to shoot. I know everyone likes different things, but i figured i would throw the offer out there in hopes that you can also enjoy the 40 like i do. Certainly worth a shot.
 
Have a Beretta, a Glock, and a Sig226 in 40 S&W. The Glock and the Sig have 357 Sig barrels as well. Like shooting them all. Bought a 40 barrel for my 10mm M1911 as well, but haven't gotten around to getting it fitted yet.
 
700FPS 158 SWCs in my Taurus 85 ultralite is far more snappy than any 40 I have shot. Same ammo in a steel frame is pleasant.

Rosewood
 
The problem may be the manufactures put a more powerful cartridge in the same weight gun as a 9mm. Physics makes it recoil more. No free lunches. I love the 40 in full size guns, not so much in a sub-compact. If I was going to a gunfight, a fullsize 40 would be the gun I would grab. For EDC, I go with a 9mm for light and ease of carry.

Rosewood
 
I have always said that gun manufacturers are like car manufacturers, some people like Ford, some Chevy, some Toyota,......... I would further expand on that to calibers. Some like 45, some like 40, some like 9,.........

I have always stressed location, location, location. You can stop someone just as easy with a 22mag as you can with a 44 mag as long as you hit what you need to hit. I guess I am one of those odd ones that likes a little recoil. I thoroughly enjoy my 460mag revolver. I have carried just about every "Mainstream" caliber on duty. 45, 40, 9, and 357. I don't trust in the bullet caliber, I trust in the weapon I carry and my ability to protect myself and others around me.

If you don't like recoil, great, carry a 9 or 380. If you can handle recoil and it doesn't bother you, fantastic, carry a 40, 10, 45, or a 44. Is the 40 dead, hardly. If it is one thing I have learned, there is a buyer for every caliber out there, pistol, revolver or rifle. I just recently saw a round that I had never heard of (not that this is something new, plenty of rounds that I have never heard of). What the heck is a 338 Spectre. A 10mm necked down to 338 for a carbine.

No caliber dies, they just go quiet for a while until someone comes up with a new way to fire them.
 
I had a broken wrist a long time ago. After that is hurt to shoot .44 Magnum. At some point I picked up a East German Makarov in 9X18. It was snappy to shoot and hurt my wrist. Ended up giving it and 1500 rounds to friend. have a S&W Model 39 & a Beretta 92 and neither are snapy no matter what I feed them.
 
IAM Rand said:
I have always said that gun manufacturers are like car manufacturers, some people like Ford, some Chevy, some Toyota,......... I would further expand on that to calibers. Some like 45, some like 40, some like 9,.........

I have always stressed location, location, location. You can stop someone just as easy with a 22mag as you can with a 44 mag as long as you hit what you need to hit. I guess I am one of those odd ones that likes a little recoil. I thoroughly enjoy my 460mag revolver. I have carried just about every "Mainstream" caliber on duty. 45, 40, 9, and 357. I don't trust in the bullet caliber, I trust in the weapon I carry and my ability to protect myself and others around me.

If you don't like recoil, great, carry a 9 or 380. If you can handle recoil and it doesn't bother you, fantastic, carry a 40, 10, 45, or a 44. Is the 40 dead, hardly. If it is one thing I have learned, there is a buyer for every caliber out there, pistol, revolver or rifle. I just recently saw a round that I had never heard of (not that this is something new, plenty of rounds that I have never heard of). What the heck is a 338 Spectre. A 10mm necked down to 338 for a carbine.

No caliber dies, they just go quiet for a while until someone comes up with a new way to fire them.
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Try this one: Magnum Research .429 Desert Eagle (DE) - Guns and Ammo My little Sister has one and thinks it is a hoot to shoot. Ammo pricey at about $60 a box of 20. This is a 50AE necked down to 44.
 
I forgot (Hell to get old), I do have a .40 cal in an auto form. It is the barrel on the right side of the picture.
 

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DWalt said:
My only .40 is a .400 Cor-Bon. No plans to add any other.
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Many folks get what they have been prepped to believe they will get (except not in dating).

In '91 the NMSP transitioned to the 5906 from the M19 (using the Federal 125 grain JHP). A 16-year sergeant was worried about the 9mm because it "...sounded 'hot'." He had carried M19s with the Fed ammo since the 1970s and even 'won' an I-40 gunfight with one (a one-shot nonfatal stop on a perp who had wounded him in the thigh). On the range he was unable to qualify with the 9mm for two solid days because it was so 'hot.' He kept up his qualification with the M19 and the Federals with no trouble.

I first started hearing 'snappy' associated with the 40 some 20 years after it was introduced...maybe we just had inadequate adjective vocabularies in the '90s and early 2000s.

If you expect 'snappy,' you'll perceive 'snappy.'
 
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One of my first S&W gen 3 pistols was the 4053 TSW , long before I purchased a 3913 TSW. I still shoot them both regularly. I like how the 4013 carries and I shoot it exceptionally well. The recoil didn't really bother my at all.
If I were to have to start getting rid of some of my guns the 4013 would be among the last to go.
 
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luvsmiths said:
I never had a 40.

Never saw the need to trade down from the superior performance of the 45ACP. :D
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I went from 45 ACP to 40 S&W in '93 through retirement. The issue 4506 was DA, and I gained 2 rounds capacity and far better qualification scores with a Browning High Power in 40. Still have it, but it has too much sentimental value for EDC.

Sure wish Henry would chamber the Homesteader in 40.
 
Would someone please tell me why how the "New 9mm" ammo is so much better? All of us old dudes remember Super Vel, and Lee Jurras. There is just so much velocity out of that little cartridge. And hollow points aren't new by any stretch of the imagination.
If 9mm ammo is now so much better, why hasn't that technology carried over to the 40 and 45? Or has it, and you just never hear about that because the recoil sensitive who probably can't shoot the 9 very well would do even worse with a bigger projectile.

I'll never get into a gunfight. But I do have the propensity to shoot deer in the Fall. If I had to put meat on the table, and all I had was a wonder 9 or a 40, the 40 would be in the tree stand with me.
 
I like the .40S&W. Many people have a problem with the .40 pistols, because most were originally designed for 9mm and/or it does not fit their hand properly.

My favorite S&W .40 is the 4053. The compact frame is the same as the .45s. I carry the 4053 while walking my dog from Xmas to April 1st during the fox mating season. Those critters can become troublesome and unpredictable during that time of the year.

Most other months of the year, I like my 9mm 3953 for EDC.

I have a PPS40 that I'll admit is not a range gun, but it's a fine shooter and tack driver. It does punish my hand after a few mags, but it conceals well and is a nice self-defense option.

I remember when folks were poo-pooing the 1911s and the .45 ACP round. Well, it's still with us stronger now more than ever.
 
When I was eleven, my dad bought a Ruger Blackhawk, 4 5/8" barrel, in .41 Magnum. That was one of the handguns I learned to shoot with. So now, when I hear "snappy recoil" in conjunction with the .40 S&W, I just laugh and shake my head. I think some guys try to manufacture reasons to dislike it.

I bashed it for years. Then I found a 4006 at a price I could live with. Since I already loaded 10mm (and my dies were for both), I thought, why not? Accurate, reliable, and reasonably powerful, what's not to like? It's a bit too heavy for EDC, but still, a great gun/cartridge combo.
 
Yendor357 said:
Would someone please tell me why how the "New 9mm" ammo is so much better?
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Because JHP ammo couldn't consistently meet FBI Specifications — 12"-18" in Organic Ballistics Gel after passing through 4 layers of heavy denim with uniform expansion — which has long since been addressed.

The FBI's Testing Protocol is a simple pass or fail, and back in the late eighties to mid nineties 9mm consistently failed, so ammo companies kept experimenting until they could get 9mm JHP to pass.

These days, any modern 9mm JHP on the market will meet FBI Specs, but back in the day most couldn't.
 
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