Identifty old Remington rifle?

[KulKanin]

Hi, I was wondering if anyone has any idea what it is I have here.
A friend of mine found an old rifle (or shotgun?), but it's not like anything I have ever seen.
Lenght: 118cm (16.45 inches)
Barrel length: 78cm (30.70 inches)
Caliber - unknown, but smaller than a 12 gauge (16ga maybe?)
markings: Remington NY behind the hammer

Anyone got ideas what this is, and how old it might be?
Sorry for the poor quality of the pictures, I'll see if I can get him to send me a better shot of the whole gun.

Any and all help would be greatly appreciated.

 

[murphydog]

The simple answer is it is a Remington Rolling Block. These were made in many different rifle calibers but I do not recall it was made originally in shotgun chamberings. I suppose it would be an easy conversion. What is the exact bore diameter?

A serial number may help with an age estimate.

Edit to add: appears this model was an official issue rifle of the Norwegian army, .50 caliber rimfire, a few years ago (back when Sweden and Norway were one kingdom ):

Remington Rolling Block rifle - Wikipedia

 

[KulKanin]

Thanks for the reply. I don't have the exact bore diameter, and there is no visible serial number anywhere. But - I found some more information when you mentioned that it's a rolling block.

Remington rolling block Swedish Military Single shot rifles

I believe it's one of these he's got his hands on. I'll pay him a visit to check it out.

 

[Bakebfr480]

Nice find!

 

[2152hq]

I think thats the Remington made R/B for the Danish contract.
It's marked Remington so it's their mfg. Denmark later mfg'd the same rifle at their own arsenal and will have that name on it (can't recall what it is though!...Kobenhaven or something like that).

The breech block has the Danish contract 'firing pin retractor' on the top of it. That's to ensure the firing pin is drawn back and held there each time the breech block is opened.
When a loaded round is chambered it makes sure a BP fouled firing pin is not stuck in the forward position and then slam fires the rifle with the simple closing of the breech block (unlocked).
The small ID disc in the butt stock is common on the Danish contract rifles.

But there are Norwegian and Swede R/B rifles too and the variations abound.
But I think those countrys editions with the firing pin retractor were made in their own arsenals and were not Remington contract rifles,,might be wrong though. Quite a confusing bunch all around historicaly.
Some have a breech lock added onto the hammer spur also.

This one was most likely bored out to a smoothbore I'm guessing,,but maybe they made some that way.

 

[DWalt]

If it's marked Remington, it was made by Remington. The RBs were made by different manufacturers in different countries in a multitude of calibers. I believe that the 11.7mm Danish RBs were made in Denmark under license, and not by Remington but there may have been some earlier examples imported which were made by Remington. The 11.7 mm Danish cartridge was originally a rimfire but later versions were centerfire. There were also several case lengths made - I list 41.5mm, 45.5mm, 51mm, 51.6mm, and 56mm.

The breech appears to have originally been made as a rimfire but converted to CF. A chamber casting could be made using molten sulfur, and the sulfur casting's diameter and case length could be carefully measured. Those measurements could be used to determine exactly what cartridge it was chambered for. I have not seen nor heard of a RB re-bored as a shotgun, but anything is possible. Is the barrel rifled?

 

[Muley Gil]

A few rolling blocks were chambered in 16, 20 & 28 gauge and maybe a few others (24 & 32 ga). IIRC, they were Husqvarnas. There are several on auction sites, but obviously I wouldn't provide a link.

 

[Texas Star]

Spain used this rifle before adopting the 7mm Mauser. Churchill referred to them after his 1895 visit to Cuba.

DO NOT fire modern 7X57mm ammo in one. Bolt actions, even the M-93 Mauser, are much stronger.

Egypt used them in some 11mm caliber, I think. This is around the time the British defeated the Mahdi.

 

[steelslaver]

It might not be a smooth bore, but eithe leaded up of badly fouled. Take and spray the bore down with a bunch of Kroil (a penetrating oil) then after it sets a day or 2 use a 20 gauge bore brass brush on it. Interesting gun.

If it was mechanically sound, a centerfire, it would be fun if you could get some brass for it. Black powder loads of course.

 

[KulKanin]

Thanks for all replies! Added some more pictures, including the remington stamp, the whole rifle and the serial.

I think thats the Remington made R/B for the Danish contract.
//snip//
This one was most likely bored out to a smoothbore I'm guessing,,but maybe they made some that way.

I believe you are correct on the Danish part. The rifle was in fact aquired in Denmark, not in Sweden as I first thought.

It's not smoothbore, there is acutally rifling in there. Also - it seems that it's one of the ones converted from rimfire to CF. Seems someone removed the rear sight at some point as well.

I have adviced my friend to take a trip to the gunsmith and see if he can provide some (blackpowder) ammunition for this so that we can see if it goes boom.

Thanks for all the input!

1 last question - any ideas where I could get a date of the serial number (25610)? I'm thinking somewhere around 1867?

 

[DWalt]

There are Remington collector websites which may provide information about dating a Remington-made RB from its SN. My guess is that finding any original 11.7mm Danish ammunition may be challenging and it would probably not fire if you found any. It is possible to form shootable brass from other more available calibers but that would be a formidable and expensive job. My sources show that there at least five variations of the 11.7mm Danish CF cartridge and all are dimensionally different.

What I would do is make a sulfur chamber casting as I originally discussed. Then have a machinist make a few cases of the same dimension from brass rod by turning and boring on a lathe. You can prime and load those with black powder or a BP substitute. Slug the bore to determine its diameter (which should be around 0.460-0.470"), and see if you can find a mold of the correct size to cast round lead balls. Drop the round ball into the chamber, followed by the loaded case and fire. Just deprime and reload the case with BP and repeat. The cases should last forever.