identifying 32-20 CTG

[glowe]

With the small logo on the left side, it could not have shipped in 1917. All indications are that the small logo on the left side was started no earlier than 1920. The butt needs a total cleaning of the wood and the glue to determine the number for sure. I am still holding out hope for something around 100,000 range and maybe matching the barrel??

 

[DWalt]

From the left side picture provided, I can't tell with certainty whether there is a round logo stamp there. If it is indeed a logo stamp, then something is amiss with the SN. So where did the 756xx come from? And what is the real SN? I believe that the logo was stamped on the side plate until just before WWI, then was dropped during the war, then the small round frame logo was added in 1919-20 and stayed there until around 1937.

 

[Alk8944]

He worked as a guard at one of the earlier state prisons in Utah as well as the local pd in the area. I also am fascinated with family history firearms. I never knew my g grandfather so it means a lot to have a something passed down generation to generation, its even cooler that its a firearm with such history!

kellenj,

A bit of Utah history that may interest you. From 1855 until 1951 the only Utah State Prison was located in Salt Lake City. The property the prison occupied is now known as Sugarhouse Park, between 2100 South and I-80 and east of 1300 East to about 1500 East. In 1951 the "new" prison was opened just North of the Utah County/Salt Lake County border in an area now known as Bluffdale, which is located within the boundaries of the town of Draper, Utah. That prison was in use until 2022.

The Police Dept. "in the area" was, and is, the Salt Lake City P.D. which began in 1851.

Your relative obviously would have worked at the original prison.

It would be interesting to know your Great Grandfather's name and when he served at both the prison and for SLCPD, there could be some very interesting history associated with him!

You are probably concerned with two different date ranges, State prison and SLCPD, as it is highly unlikely he worked for both agencies simultaneously.

 

[Wiregrassguy]

kellanj, look on the rear face of the cylinder and give us the serial number stamped there.

 

[glowe]

From the left side picture provided, I can't tell with certainty whether there is a round logo stamp there.

Here you go.

 

[bigwagon]

Covering the grip frame serial number is not a crime. If it was, every set of rubber Packmayr grips would come with a felony conviction. Why do people make up this stuff?

 

[cmansguns]

Model 1905 4th Change 32-20 HE

Got mine a little while back. No connection to anyone famous (or infamous) but a real neat little gun. Feels and handles better than same frame size Colt's to me anyway.

All original as far as my research has gone. Roy said shipped October 1921. Barrel marked " 32 WCF CTG", s/n 105093, all numbers match, small logo left side, no made in USA on right side, 1 guide pin under extractor star. Of course 5 screw and since heat treating started on this Model at s/n 81287, it should be good to go with modern ammo. I don't reload but have been searching for Cowboy Action, 115 grain, lead flat nose ammo...it shows up occasionally on line and I'll grab a few boxes when I can.

The grips are believed to be original although I can't spot any pencil remains due to age and all, but haven't yet tried a high power light with magnifying glass which sometimes shows trace remains.

OP's got a real neat gun, especially with the family history involved.

 

[Drm50]

Just put finishing touches on my DIY K32/20. Old 1905HE that has been milled for K rear adj sight. Front sight had been cut off and slot .059" milled in shank. After making 2 sights from brass and 3 from steel I have arrived at one I like. Did a flame & linseed blue.

 

[DWalt]

Just put finishing touches on my DIY K32/20. Old 1905HE that has been milled for K rear adj sight. Front sight had been cut off and slot .059" milled in shank. After making 2 sights from brass and 3 from steel I have arrived at one I like. Did a flame & linseed blue.

Exactly what is a "flame and linseed blue?" I have read about bluing or blackening steel by dipping it in an oil bath, pulling it out, then burning off the oil with a torch, but have not tried it. Is this something similar, but using linseed oil?

 

[Drm50]

Exactly what is a "flame and linseed blue?" I have read about bluing or blackening steel by dipping it in an oil bath, pulling it out, then burning off the oil with a torch, but have not tried it. Is this something similar, but using linseed oil?

Small parts of carbon steel can be heated about 500*, not to red hot and dunked in linseed oil. Will give nice even blue. Especially good for screws and such. I had high polish with crocus and it did a really nice job. The previous owner had 3 pins so I did too. 2 would have been plenty.

 

[Truckman]

It should be noted that linseed oil is one of the most flammable substances anywhere, and is also subject to spontaneous combustion......Ben

 

[Igiveup]

So, at what time in history did the serial number become mandatory? I have seen guns from the thirties and old .22s from the forties without numbers. I thought it was the 1968 gun act, even though most manufacturers already did serial numbers.

 

[desi2358]

So, at what time in history did the serial number become mandatory? I have seen guns from the thirties and old .22s from the forties without numbers. I thought it was the 1968 gun act, even though most manufacturers already did serial numbers.

The 1968 Act required all cartridge firearms to have serial numbers iirc. Many shotguns and 22 rifles did not have serial numbers before then. Larger caliber rifles normally did but I don't think it was actually required.

Handgun makers normally serial numbered their products long before then though some concealed the numbers under the grips. I think the 1934 Act may have required them on handguns but if it didn't the 68 Act took care of that. I suspect the tighter restrictions on handguns that became common in the early and mid 1900's had some effect there.

 

[glowe]

Here is the answer from the BATFE.

Are firearms that were made prior to the Gun Control Act of 1968 required to be marked with a serial number by a licensee?

No, unless remanufactured after the enactment of the GCA, October 22, 1968.

 

[Igiveup]

So, serial number or not, nothing illegal about the OP's revolver, especially from the 1917 time frame. Thank you for the previous replies.

 

[DWalt]

As long as the SN is legible and not defaced, altered, or removed, it is legal. I believe that the rule is that if a gun is NOT an antique, and has a factory applied SN, it must retain the legible SN. Removing, altering, or defacing it is illegal, even if it is from pre-1968. A pre-1968 gun that originally had no factory-applied SN is legal. Those will be mainly cheaper shotguns and .22 rifles. Almost all handguns were serial numbered, even those from the late 19th Century.

 

[glowe]

The law made is illegal to remove a serial number in 1968, but no mention of guns that were made before 1968. The statement below when taken in context of the requirements of manufacturers post-1968 to place a serial number in a certain way that is "not susceptible of being readily obliterated, altered, or removed."

Gun Control Act of 1968, Sec. 101, 82 Stat. 1213. To accomplish this objective, section 178.92 requires that each manufacturer or importer utilize an individual serial number for each firearm manufactured or imported and prohibits the duplication of any serial number placed by the manufacturer or importer on any other firearm. Furthermore, section 922(k) of the GCA makes it unlawful for any person to transport, ship, possess, or receive, in interstate or foreign commerce, any firearm that has had the importer's or manufacturer's serial number removed, obliterated, or altered.

I used to be solidly in the camp of "if any gun has the serial number removed - it is illegal to own", but the GCA of 1968 was a forward looking act and did not state that firearms without serial numbers that existed before the act was passed is subject to all the rules of the GCA.

Let me add that I would still not own a gun without a serial number or one that had one obviously removed. Primary concern is I worry that some law enforcement officers are firmly in the camp of any gun without a serial number being illegal no matter how old it is.

 

[DWalt]

This article indicates that removing, etc., a manufacturer-applied serial number from a pre-1968 modern gun is illegal. Are Firearms without Serial Numbers Illegal? - Pennsylvania Law Abiding Gun Owner Blog.

However there was a case in West Virginia recently in which a Federal judge ruled that prosecution of an individual for possessing a gun from which its serial number had been removed was unconstitutional. Judge rules federal law banning guns with serial numbers removed is unconstitutional | The Hill

So is it legal or illegal to remove a gun's SN? I really do not know after the West Virginia case, but the safest course would be to avoid having anything to do with any modern gun (as defined in GCA-1968) which had its SN removed, altered, or defaced.