IDPA Revolver question

[growr]

When shooting my 625 JM in IDPA, I am restricted to 3 reloads (total of 18 rounds), why am I not allowed to carry as much as the auto loaders? (30)?

They get to start with a magazine (10) plus one in the chamber plus two more 10 round magazines....

Seems revolver shooters are at a decided disadvantage.......especially when so many stages are not revolver friendly.

Randy

 

[lrrifleman]

@growr,

From the few IDPA matches I have been to, the shooter is required to make "X" hits, which are well within the capacity of a revolver with 2 reloads. The only advantage that I can see is that semi-auto users have more opportunity to throw lead down range to make the requisite hits, which covers the poor marksmanship.

 

[S&WIowegan]

The IDPA clubs here in Iowa that I attend matches do NOT restrict the number of revolver reloads. They restrict the number on your belt but you can have extras in your pocket. Of course you can start by using a moonclip or speedloader to load the gun from your pocket too, giving you 18 more on your belt at the buzzer. Use creative thinking.

 

[OKFC05]

[FONT=Calibri,Bold][FONT=Calibri,Bold]8.6 Ammunition Carriers
[/FONT][/FONT]8.6.1 General Ammunition Carrier Rules
A. Instead of using ammunition carriers, shooters may carry spare loading devices in their pockets. Shooters may
mix carry methods.
B. One ammunition carrier per allowed ammunition feeding device may be worn on the belt. Each individual pouch
in a multi-pouch carrier counts as one. One additional ammunition carrier may be worn behind the centerline of
the body for the purposes of loading at the start of a stage. This carrier must be empty before the “Stand By”
command.
8.1.5 Loading Device Count


A. A “loading device” is a magazine, speed loader, or moon clip.


B. Shooters starting with 8 or more rounds in all loading devices are allowed to start with the loaded firearm plus


two additional loading devices.


C. Shooters starting with 6 or 7 rounds in all loading devices are allowed to start with the loaded firearm plus three


additional loading devices.


D. Shooters starting with 5 or fewer rounds in all loading devices are allowed to start with the loaded firearm plus


four additional loading devices.


E. No additional loading devices beyond the above limits may be used during a string.


Randy, the stock answer from HQ is "Each Division is scored entirely separate, and no comparison between divisions is valid." But yeah, revolvers are not a priority with HQ, and revolver BUG shooters are really shooting just for grins, thrown in with BUG auto: only one BUG division. send comments to: [email protected]

 

[OKFC05]

The IDPA clubs here in Iowa that I attend matches do NOT restrict the number of revolver reloads. ....

This is clearly not in compliance with current rules. I sympathize with using what Joyce calls "tribal rules" for local matches, but pity the poor snook that travels and pays money for a major match only to learn he doesn't know the rules and starts soaking up penalties, or worse....

 

[Zero Down]

OKFCO5 is spot on.
Disregard the auto shooters altogether when competing with a revolver, you are not in the same division and the scores are not relevant to each other.

 

[Pizza Bob]

OKFCO5 is spot on.
Disregard the auto shooters altogether when competing with a revolver, you are not in the same division and the scores are not relevant to each other.

Yes, but it is always so satisfying to beat the bottom-feeders with a wheelgun.

To the OP: You have 24 rounds as shown in the rules above. Six in the gun plus three loading devices on your belt. I seldom use the third device.

Adios,

Pizza Bob

 

[Tanners Owner]

Yes, but it is always so satisfying to beat the bottom-feeders with a wheelgun.

To the OP: You have 24 rounds as shown in the rules above. Six in the gun plus three loading devices on your belt. I seldom use the third device.

Adios,

Pizza Bob

Pizza Bob is right on both counts
- always fun to beat those with wonder nines with what they consider as a lowly revolver

- I’ve rarely had to reach for the 3D reload on my belt.

 

[Raytracer]

By the rule book, IDPA stages can only require 18 rounds maximum. So, you've already got 6 rounds more than you need.

What I learned over the years is that as sexy as super fast splits are, you're shaving hundredths of a second off your score by speeding them up. Learning to do smooth effective transitions will start shaving tenths of a second off. Learning how to effectively manage a stage and do the job with the minimum number of shots instead of "spray and pray" will shave whole seconds off.

I didn't learn any of that until I started shooting revolver. And, now that IDPA has gone to 1 second per point down: clean, deliberate shooting pays off even more.

The biggest obstacle for revolvers in keeping up with ESP or SSP is going to be reloads. You'll almost always have two for their one. And, with the relaxed rules on reloading, they won't be doing tac loads as often so they'll be doing their second fastest type of reload. So, only two ways to fight that: don't waste ammo, and get fast with the reloads. When you do shoot at a match big enough to actually go up against another wheel gunner (and not just get a participation award), if you're both good shooters, it's going to come down to who reloads quicker and who manages the stages better.

And, that's intrinsically our biggest advantage over bottom feeders, if we choose to capitalize on it. We can actually practice our complete manual of arms completely dryfire. We can run whole matches in our basement with everything but recoil. Load up a few hundred clearly marked dummy rounds and work that trigger and those reloads until you're blue in the face!

I, of course, preach that, but don't do it nearly enough. But, even so, after 2 months of almost no shooting after an injury, I ran a 5x5 classifier in ESP, SSP and REV. My best time on string 3 with the reload? REV, believe it or not. I had to shake the timer to make sure it wasn't broken, but there it is.

As others have pointed out in this thread: as a shooter, there is almost nothing more satisfying than being able to point out to someone that they just got beat by a wheelgun.

 

[Pisgah]

Why does a side get 4 downs in football and not 6? Why is a baseball side retired after 3 outs and not four?

It's a game. Them's the rules.

 

[Gryff]

When shooting my 625 JM in IDPA, I am restricted to 3 reloads (total of 18 rounds), why am I not allowed to carry as much as the auto loaders? (30)?

Because revolver shooters recognize the elegance of accuracy rather than the spray and pray chaos of the bottom feeders. We know how to do more with less (wait...that sounds bad...screw it, you know what I mean).

 

[Kiwi cop]

I don’t shoot IDPA. I do however shoot major calibre in IPSC Classic Division, which means I have 8+1 round in my pistol at the start and 8 round reloads whereas most of my competitors shoot minor with 10 round mags.

All of the advise above has been relevant to me in advancing my shooting. But planning the stage is crucial, especially with lower ammunition counts. Plan appropriate reloads, slow down that fraction to make a hit instead of a miss, and shoot to your plan. Those that think they can go faster because they have additional rounds end up missing, and going a lot slower overall.

 

[S&WIowegan]

I don’t shoot IDPA. I do however shoot major calibre in IPSC Classic Division, which means I have 8+1 round in my pistol at the start and 8 round reloads whereas most of my competitors shoot minor with 10 round mags.

All of the advise above has been relevant to me in advancing my shooting. But planning the stage is crucial, especially with lower ammunition counts. Plan appropriate reloads, slow down that fraction to make a hit instead of a miss, and shoot to your plan. Those that think they can go faster because they have additional rounds end up missing, and going a lot slower overall.

THIS^^^I see newbies in both USPSA and IDPA constantly running their gun dry in the middle of a string. This is somewhat understandable in IDPA since shoot to slide lock is part of the game. Even so smart IDPA shooters dump rounds so they can reload during transitions. In USPSA, if you can't learn to reload when best for efficient stage management, you are hopeless.

 

[Kiwi cop]

THIS^^^I see newbies in both USPSA and IDPA constantly running their gun dry in the middle of a string. This is somewhat understandable in IDPA since shoot to slide lock is part of the game. Even so smart IDPA shooters dump rounds so they can reload during transitions. In USPSA, if you can't learn to reload when best for efficient stage management, you are hopeless.

I cannot endorse this comment enough!

I shoot with a great bunch of guys in my grade but without exception they fail to shoot their stage plan.

They allocate 2 rounds to paper but only 1 to steel. They miss a steel target and their plan goes out the door. They shoot to slide lock instead of reloading with one in the chamber, and continue to shoot to slide lock throughout the rest of the stage.

On the other hand I "budget" 2 rounds per target, paper and steel, and I am always conscious I may have to shoot an additional shot if I make a poor shot. I will reload before I planed to if I must but at the first opportunity its I get back on plan.

I carry two mags behind my holster for weak hand shooting/reloading. I once missed two easy shots weak handed and while taking the makeup shots realised I would run out of ammo before my planned reload on the move, so I drew a spare mag with my strong hand. When I changed mags between targets it was smooth. When I moved I changed mags again. I could have retained the partially spent mag if I had too but it wasn't needed.

I have the luxury of unlimited reloads, but if I was restricted as IDPA is I would save a partially spent magazine in order to get back on track.

Plan the shoot, shoot the plan, but be prepared to improvise where needed but then get back on plan.

 

[fredj338]

As noted, it is a rule. With 18rd max stages, 24rds is enough to satisfy any stage. Besides, you are competing against other revo guys, not the 10+1 divisions. BTW, same rule for BUG; 6 in the gun, 3 reloads of 6, 24max. In a recent regional match, I shot BUG just because & finished top 3rd overall even with all those extra reloads.

 

[cbore]

Because we are better than them (autos)

 

[Gryff]

Because we are better than them

That's what Custer thought.

 

[WR Moore]

About the shots/second thing. As a long time instructor, I noted that the difference between a good solid hit (A/0 zone) and a lesser hit took about 0.1 of a second with an auto. Maybe the same or 0.2 second with a revolver. Given the penalty for the lesser hit, taking time to make the shot good is the best long term bet.

 

[fredj338]

About the shots/second thing. As a long time instructor, I noted that the difference between a good solid hit (A/0 zone) and a lesser hit took about 0.1 of a second with an auto. Maybe the same or 0.2 second with a revolver. Given the penalty for the lesser hit, taking time to make the shot good is the best long term bet.

Considering good split times are 0.25sec I would say your math is a bit off, though the point of taking just a bit more time to make solid hit is generally worth it. Though I would rather take a fast -1 than a slow zero on most days.
In say idpa, the zero down is an 8" circle. At 15y, I would be happy with 2 hits @ -1 each in 1.5 sec than 2 zero down in 4sec. I save 1/2 sec per target x 8 targets a stage, I shot the stage 4sec faster. With 10 stages a match, I am 40sec faster over all. Speed & accuracy is always a balance.

 

[WR Moore]

Ah, 2 + 1 sec hits in 1.5 seconds is 3.5 seconds total time. 2 zero hits in 1.7 seconds or 1.9 seconds (+0.1 or 0.2 secs per hit) would seem to be the better choice. Granted, that time is going to change depending upon range and target presentation.

I've had some non zero zone hits I'd have taken in a heartbeat in the real world. The IDPA tagets leave something to be desired, but as noted above , it's a game. With some stupid rules.

Tactical Police Competition scoring is 0, + 2 seconds, +4 seconds.