If you build your own AR’s; some input please

[Hair Trigger]

I want an AR for hunting that is reasonably accurate and powerful out to 400 yards. I narrowed the choices down to either an Anderson AM15 6.5 Grendel at $565.00 or a Rock River Arms 6.8 spc for $802.00. I dislike mil-spec furniture and would replace it with MagPul, add a sling, spare magazine and a Larue trigger; so another $250.00 into either one. For $800.00 to $-1,000.00 I should be able to assemble an entire AR with above average parts. I just don’t know which parts to buy. I am leaning toward a Wilson Combat 6.8 spc barrel and BCG. I don’t believe I need a $500.00 receiver set. I don’t like or need a rail, or a $150.00 CH, hand guards suit me fine. Lots of choices for receiver tubes and buffers/springs.

If anyone can enlighten me on parts choices I would certainly appreciate it.

If you're going to start ripping stuff of to replace it with something more "you", just buy the parts and build it yourself.

I've built two uppers and use a common lower, and they suit what I want just fine. A Grendel is effective way past 400 yards, as a long range cartridge it's good to at least 1000 yards, and would have ample energy for white tail deer at least to 800 yards. According to my ballistics chart for my loads, 6.5G has about the same energy at 1100 yards as a 40S&W has at the muzzle. If you're not interested in more than 400, the 6.8 should fit the bill nicely. I built a 300 BLK to use for CQB matches and mid-range target shooting, it is accurate as hell out to 300. My Grendel is good to 1125, about when it goes subsonic with a 123 grain match bullet. Not quite the legs of a 6.5 Creedmoor, but it's a smaller overall package and cheaper to load for. TRhe common lower has a Geissele High Speed National Match DMR trigger, about 2 pounds on the 2nd stage pull.

If you stay with milspec parts, you can mix and match brands and not worry about something not fitting. I used Mega (now ZEV) upper and lower receivers. I used a Geissele trigger group and their handguard/rails for both rifles. The Grendel is a 20" Odinworks barrel and bolt, matched for the backspacing. I used a 16" Ranier Match barrel for the Blackout, and Magpul ACS stock. There's a mix of Wilson Combat and Spikes Tactical and Precision Arms parts depending on which upper setup.

Are you including a scope in your stated budget or shooting with iron sights for a while? Spend at least 2/3 the total cost of the rifle on a good scope and mount.
Grendel on the left, Blackout on the right:

 

[WR Moore]

Good points about tools, etc. I have a couple of books (Zediker book are excellent), torque wrench, action rods, headspace gauges, and other tools/gauges. Do you absolutely have to have all of that? Probably not, we are talking about a firearm that you may need to depend on.

I've got my own issues with finger/brain faults on the keyboard, but I think there's something wrong with that last sentence. Possibly an "unless" after the comma?

 

[ColbyBruce]

This is the first AR I built. The barrel had the FH/barrel nut/FSB/hand guard retainer on it, as it was a new take-off. The gun works fine. I can put an AR together and prefer to do my next one.

AR Performance barrels have been suggested to me but most models are out of stock. There are a lot of complaints of poor QC with Aero products lately; however, I just purchased a slick FDE upper and it fits my Skyjacker Defense lower perfectly. The color is nearly identical too.

I have a few loose optics to use .

 

[LVSteve]

I've got my own issues with finger/brain faults on the keyboard...

LOL!! Get in line.

 

[BillBro]

The DIY approach has one major fault: Quality Control. You have to figure out which parts are good and assume that they meet all specifications and tolerances. Proper assembly means the use of specialized tools and gauges that'll be a one time expense that adds to the cost. Yeah, you can put it together without them, but it might not be right. Any and all problems are your problems.

OTOH, purchase from a known quality manufacturer gets you their QA/QC, a product fully assembled by skilled personnel with all the proper tools and a warranty. The modular construction does give you the option of buying a lower and upper assembly separately. I would be very picky about the source for either. My personal list of acceptable builders is rather short.

I saw a lot of Rock River products in the hands of governmental agencies while attending various classes. They all did very well and I wouldn't have bothered changing the triggers of any I tried.

I have to disagree here. The benefit with building your own IS quality Control. You control the quality by your own research. With some reading and questions and heeding advice of guys dedicated to this caliber, 6.8SPC (6.8Forum) you will not go wrong and end up with a far superior rifle than one bought unless your willing to spend far more than your current stated budget and I speak from experience x2.

Tell you what, google Harrison Beene and start therr if you want a 6.8. He is a pompous man, again I speak from experience but he knows more about and has done more for the development of the 6.8spc than probably anyone else. The 6.8forum was basically his domain for a few decades. ARPerformance is his company and are without question the very best in 6.8 barrels and bolts ever, and again from multiple experiences and I am far from the only one who would tell you this. His chamber designs, rifling types and twist rates are as good as you will buy.

 

[Baltimoreed11754]

Do you reload? If not then factory ammo availability might be a consideration. I built a Seekins ar with a 300 blkout wilson barrel and while I liked the build did not like the caliber and the aggravation building brass. I eventually sold the blkout parts and moved my Taccom .22 bcg /barrel into it. Love it. I would suggest you start with a nice upgraded upper/lower like a Seekins or Sharps Bros. They are very well made and thought out ARs, no silly split pins to deal with. The 6.5 is all the rage. But my 6.5 is a Swede.

 

[WR Moore]

I have to disagree here. The benefit with building your own IS quality Control. You control the quality by your own research.

At one time I worked as a production machinist and later as a prototype machinist. That's not QC, that's betting on the other guy's QC.

Let me tell a story related to your approach. Almost 50 years ago I toured a world famous gun barrel making plant. Their QA/QC was impressive, starting with taking samples for each and every steel bar for testing to make sure the delivered product was the correct specification steel. The process continued through interim inspections between production steps and a final inspection.

While in the rifling area, one of the things they showed me was the specially dimensioned rifling button used to make the blanks for a famous firm who "made" 1911 barrels. No idea if they actually did the finish machining or farmed it out.

Some years later I bought one of the famous name barrels. While performing a brief receipt inspection I discovered that instead of 6 lands & grooves, there were only 3. All on one side of the ID. Contact with the famous name produced a response of: "That's impossible!" followed by a hang up. Fortunately, I purchased the barrel through Brownells and they exchanged it without question.

Now, that was a REALLY obvious reason for rejection, but somehow, it made it out the door for sale. Since you lack the specs and gauges, you really can't make an actual receipt inspection of the parts you buy. While the famous name barrels seem to work, one wonders just how close they are to actual blue print specs that we can't check.

I've also received parts from at least one major gun maker with visible dimensional defects. With one exception, they replaced the part. That one stunned me by stating they couldn't, at that time, be sure they could find a better replacement. They also seem to keep chamber reamers in service longer than they should-dull reamers cut oversize chambers.

Bear in mind that no AR/clone "manufacturer" makes all the parts. When parts are made they're inspected on a interval. 1 in 10, 1 in 100, 1 in 1000. Rarely, each and every part is inspected. [I got many of those plus or minus 0.001 in. jobs.] The question is what happens to the rejects? They should get sold for scrap. However, ya gotta keep the doors open and the business in the black. Then the plant-or the scrap dealer- may sort the rejects and find the ones that are out of spec, but "close enough to work" and sell them. Obviously someone else who needs to keep their plant open is gonna buy them.

Do what you want but don't consider what you're doing actual QA/QC without the proper tools and specs.

 

[STORMINORMAN]

A visit to The School of the American Rifle's videos might also be a worthwhile sojourn...?

It has certainly changed my thinking in regards to what REALLY matters: the #1 consideration being DOES IT ACTUALLY WORK RELIABLY?

Both the concept of tolerance stacking and his easy differentiation between something being "in (or "out of") spec" vs. a "failure" is enlightening, IMHO.

Cheers!

 

[Paul in Nevada]

...Since you lack the specs and gauges, you really can't make an actual receipt inspection of the parts you buy...

But that logic applies to a fully assembled rifle as well.

 

[STORMINORMAN]

Lacking the "specs and gauges" to make "the actual receipt inspection" of virtually anything one might purchase...

Reminds me of Vernon L. Pinkley's comment in The Dirty Dozen: "Very pretty, Colonel. Very pretty. But, can they fight?"

Does it work, RELIABLY?

Cheers!

 

[WR Moore]

But that logic applies to a fully assembled rifle as well.

Yes, you're depending upon the factory to perform receipt inspection on parts they buy, machine the parts they make to spec and build it right (and THEY do have and use -or at least we're a hoping and a praying they do-the gauges etc.) and have it be functional. The difference being that they provide a warranty that will make it right if there's an issue. When you build it, well, you own it all, including the failed parts and/or functional problems.

Yes, you can (with care and a bit of luck) build your own while assuming all the parts are in spec. However, over decades I've seen problems with factory ARs and other products. Specifically including examples from builders some folks label "Tier 1" producers. I've also seen some truly fascinating events at competitions with home built specials (or maybe by the local AR guru). No one got hurt SFAIK, but I expect replacing the damaged parts would make up most if not all the difference between home built and factory. Not to mention the possible soiled undies. I've seen several cases of clamp/set screw fastened gas blocks blowing forward upon firing after they got loose.

Just as an example, I mentioned in another thread I'd chambered a barrel I installed on a bolt gun. I darn well had the full set of head space gauges before I did that. While CNC machining generally holds tighter tolerances than previous practices, the gauges are cheap insurance that with an AR, the bolt really does fit properly and when it's time for a new one.

 

[pharmer]

I have an "oversupply" of AR's. I am not a builder but I do "slaptogether" OK. I put this one together a couple weeks back, maybe $600 (Spike's lower, PSA SS upper) with the scope and mount. I fired a couple mags worth through it with a $10 Tasco scope last outing, flawless operation and more accurate than I can shoot. I hope the Chinese Vortex scope/mount improves grop. I wouldn't dream of 400 yd shots with it, neither would I consider 6.5 Grendel a 400 yd capable rifle. Then again everybody here shoots better than me. Joe

 

[Papa32129]

Look at AR performance barrels and super bolts.
Known in the .68 forum for Accuracy chambers and Bolt life.

Papa