If you could improve a Dillon...........

[Skip Sackett]

what would you do?

Let me clarify my question. I'm don't want anyone to say: "They are two expensive." Listen, coming from a bunch of folks that lie to themselves about how much cheaper reloading is, that is the last thing that needs to be said!

At any rate, my experience has been great with my Dillons. I have 3 Square Deal presses, one is a "B" and an XL650 with a case feeder.

Now, I didn't pay list for any of the SD presses. 2 I bought off of local guys that either couldn't make them run or just wanted to get out of reloading. In all 3 I don't have $550. I did send one in to have refurbished and just gave that one to our oldest son. He will get years and years of use out of it!

All of that being said, I don't have any strong mounts for any of my presses. They mount directly to a bench.

Their service is exceptional and technical support is tops.

But with all that "good" about them there are two things I would change in a heartbeat if I was on their design team.

One would be the way that primer system works on the XL650. If a case doesn't take a primer away, I don't want the primer system to advance. Oh, sure, I can remove the "cam" that actuates it and advance them by hand, and I have, but like the SDB, why can't the unused primer just stay there? Maybe a "cam" that can be easily folded in and out of use. No tools needed, simply fold it up and no primers advance, fold it out and away you go. That's one thing.

The other thing applies to both types of presses. The only thing that each of them needs is a "motor" and they could be almost automatic, that is, until you have to do something with the spent primers. Maybe it is designed that way to force you to stop at some point, not sure. What I did do was make some very simple modifications to my presses to get the spent primers out of that silly little attached box.

On the SDB's, I took an 1/8" NPT tap and partially tapped the hole where the spent primers exit the press ram. Then I got a hose barb that was 1/8" NPT to 3/8" ID clear plastic tubing. The hole in the barb is large and the way the primers come out of the smaller press, they almost cannot get jammed on it before exiting. The other end of that hose goes into a coffee can that has a hole cut in the top to accept it. Works great.

The XL650 was a little trickier. The hole that the primers exit the press through is square and I didn't want to drill it to make it round. If it had been, it would have gotten the same treatment as the SDB! What I did instead was this: I had an extra primer catch cup and drilled a hole in the bottom of it. I took the same type of hose barb only with 3/8" NPT threads on it, drilled and tapped the box and inserted the barb in the bottom of the box. Only one problem, the threads stuck up from the bottom a good 3/8"! So, here comes the hillbilly in me, I took and filled the bottom of the box with silicone and smoothed it into a funnel towards the barb. Onto the barb I put the same 3/8" ID soft plastic tubing and put the same coffee can assembly at the other end. Not every primer falls through that one so well but there aren't more than two or three in there at any one time.

So, that is what I have done and would like to see done on future models. Just me though. Seems like I am always tinkering.

What would you do? I'm sure there are other things that folks could or have come up with, share them!

 

[Harrison]

I have been using a Dillion 550B since 1995 and would not change anything on it. I did take the low primer warning gizmo off it. I don't use Dillon dies, I use Redding dies made for a progressive press. I really can't think of anything to change. It is simple, easy to adjust and it works. What more could you want? Mine has loaded tens of thousands of rounds of 38/357. 9mm, 40s&w, and 45acp. A few springs etc have broke over the years and Dillon sends a replacement free. I had to replace a primer bar a couple of years ago, it was free.

 

[Lowpower]

I'd ask Dillon to lower their price on their 550B deluxe quick change assembly. I mean, come on! We pay exorbitant prices for the presses themselves then they want $97 for each conversion? IMHO it's a bit much seeing as how the economy has tanked and all with no end in sight. I guess the Country going down the tubes doesn't mean anything to them as they ignore it. I guess it's like boat ownership. If you want the boat plan for spending 3x as much for any accessories.

If I didn't own one now I don't think I'd spend the money again.

Sorry for the rant but there is a recession on.

Lowpower

 

[yaktamer]

At the risk of being labeled as some sort of heretic by the legions of Dillon disciples, I recently read a blog post (don't recall where) in which someone ran down a comparison of the latest Hornady progressive press and Dillon. He or she made a pretty convincing case that the Hornady had some real advantages. If I recall correctly, the main advantage had something to do with the powder measure and switching between calibers. I don't own a progressive or a Hornady or Dillon anything (just an RSCBS single stage), so I have no dog in the fight, just passing along some info that may or may not be helpful.

 

[Skip Sackett]

Not for all of us................

I guess I don't feel that way. Their parts are expensive when you compare them to what? Lee? Not even close in quality! Rant, and ranting is fine, just have justification, friend.

There is price or cost and then there is value. How many times have you asked for parts and paid nothing? Never? Well, only two possible answers to that situation; either the equipment is seldom used or it is good and you haven't had to ask for any parts.

Now, I specifically asked for there to be no "price" complaints. The preceding statement is why. You simply cannot judge by price alone.

Are there other presses out there? Sure! Good ones? Sure, some of them are great! Some, not so much. All in all though, they each have a value. Take the Lee Turret Presses. I think they have a wonderful place in the hobby. Do I have one? Yes! Do I use it to make my competition fodder? NO! It simply takes too long. Small batches, rifle ammo or load development, you can't ask for something better, IMO. As good? Sure, tons of presses!

As for the recession, even though I live in a town that Obama came to twice as a showcase for his concern over the economy, I have seen none of the recession of which you speak. I am a Union Electrician and there are hundreds of folks "on the books" and I feel for them. Through it all though, I have been working overtime! Just recently I switched jobs and am now in a factory working as their Electrical Control Engineer. My new boss is a great guy but he has one peculiar habit. When he want to tease, he says: "I'll fire you." Some folks get all weird and afraid. I simply say back to him: "15 minutes." The first time I said that he asked what I meant. I said: "15 minutes and I can have another job that pays more and I may even have to work less!" After a while he will quit telling me he is going to fire me!

Years ago though, similar to my thought process when buying reloading equipment, I decided I had to offer a value to my employer. Sure he has to pay more for me BUT he gets much more in return than he ever imagined!

And, just so no one thinks I am tooting my own horn, I owe it all to Jesus Christ!

 

[Skip Sackett]

yak,
No problem in recognizing good tools. Some folks will squabble over Ford and Chevy, Pepsi or Coke, Dillon or Hornady, Snap-on or Mac or any list of things. That wasn't what this thread was supposed to be about.

I recognize the other quality presses out there. The L-N-L AP is just one of them. It is a little cheaper than the XL650, but not much. I have a friend here on the forum, maybe two or three that have them and have nothing but high praise for them. Ditto. In fact, the next press I get is going to be one. (Those blue presses are going to have a fit when that red one comes into their territory! )

Let's not bash any of them. All of the presses available today work just as they were designed. Some are designed to do reloading very well, one at a time. Some are designed to do reloading very well with a cartridge produced with every pull of the lever and everything in between.

To be honest, I have 2 single stage presses, 1 automatic turret, one manual turret press and the 4 progressives. They all have their place in the scheme of reloading and they all do their work very well.

 

[Smith357]

I have a 550b and would redesign the primer feed system. Loading up the tube takes too many steps, There should be some way to just attach a flip tray in place of that tube. Changing from large primers to small is also a real pain. Other than that I would leave it alone.

 

[Lowpower]

Apologies for my rant...

I began this reply with my apology then began thinking about the things wrong with the Dillon. I've owned both the SDB and the 550B.

Suffice it to say I understand you like to tinker with things and that's great. I do not plan to argue the issues I have had with these products but it does go back to profit/customer service. Here's why.

I should not call the fine folks at Dillon and get two different answers for the same question. To be fair one question had to do with the SDB and the other had to do with the 550B. Both were regarding the adjustment bolt on the charge bar. In the 1st instance I had mentioned, in chatting with them, I could turn the charge bar adjustment bolt with my fingers. They said that's a no-no and they would send me a new charge bar. In the 2nd instance this time with the 550B I got a different response. This other fellow said thats ok!
So which is it? It all started because of crazy powder drops that were all over the place.

Ok then, problem child. Powder drops being very erractic.
Response..different powders can cause inconsistancies in the charge.

How long have these folks been in business? Why can I go on line and find "fixes" for this problem? If there is a fix for a more accurate powder drop and Dillon is charging an arm and a leg because its a great product why don't they go back to the drawing board and fix it instead of charging big bucks for additional accessories?

Instead I get inconsistant answers to something that should not be an issue in the first place.

What does it all mean? A 550B is supposed to load how many rounds per hour? It's not what is advertised unless you don't care how much of what is in that cartridge you just dropped a charge into.

Here's a Co. that makes miniguns!

How about turning a little bit of those big bucks they charge for reloading things back into the actual equipment and fixing it instead of sending out the same old loader parts over and over.

Tinkering is fine in it's place but I don't feel I should have work up a fix, pay and/or wait due to a Co that, from what I see, isn't really interested in its customers.

I've only loaded around 6000 rounds in the 550B to date, to include 30-06, .243, .308, 6.5X55, 9MM, .38, .357, 44Spec, .44 Mag, .45ACP. I could'nt really say how many in that SDB but I'd bet it was only around 8000 9MM's and >45ACPs.

 

[campfire]

Hi Skip
My only complaint with the Dillon Square Deal has been the spent primer catchment set-up which I have modified pretty much similar to what you have done.
No more primers all over the floor and when I finish loading I just remove the plastic container and tip the primers into another small plastic bucket which I use for any reloading rubbish.
I only spent about an hour or so making with this gadget and I am very pleased with it; stole the idea from a bloke who sells them on EBay USA.
Campfire

 

[H Richard]

I've had my 550 over 20+ years. Had a large primer bar replaced, Primer tube (helicoil in base came out) replaced, most of the powder measure replaced, and finally added the "B" fail safe linkage just last year. My press has loaded, conservatively over 100,000 to 150,000 rounds, just 45acp and 38's. I load all rifle and low volume pistol on a single stage press.

There isn't much I would change. Mine is still attached directly to the bench, and I prefer it that way.

 

[kennyb]

to improve on dillon...hmmmm....buy RCBS !!

 

[shawn mccarver]

I like to pretty much leave things as they come from the factory. I have used Dillon machines and do not really have strong feelings about changing them.

 

[Skip Sackett]

Tell you what Low, tell me what you want for your presses and I'll see if I can swing buying them from you. That should make it a win/win. You got some rounds, you dislike the press, I understand.

Let me buy that "junk" off of you. I'll give you $150 for the SDB and $200for the 550B. You will have enough to buy a single stage that works every time with no tinkering. Your problem will be solved and I will have two new presses.

What do you say?

 

[Skip Sackett]

When I am asked by someone just getting into reloading the age old question is: "What kind of press should I buy, a progressive ('cause they don't want to be thought of as someone with something less than the Jones')or a single stage?" My first answer is this: "It all depends on your mechanical aptitude. If you don't have any, stay away from a progressive press."

Well, I'm thinking that is a pretty true assessment!

It's true that the powder drop system has had some problems. That was why the folks on a bunch of forums have added the old fish tank pump to them. The one thing they left out? The warning in the press manuals about what kind of powder was designed to go through their device!
Oh, yeah, the manual! Us real men only read them AFTER everything else doesn't work! I do that all of the time!

Truth be told though, all of the automated powder systems leave a little to be desired when it comes to some powders. Small amounts of even the best metering powders can cause some very poor results. If Paul5388 comes in on this conversation, he has a sheet that proves this!

No, what usually happens is that someone is unwilling to change what they are accustomed to. "I've always used Unique @ 3.5gr and it worked well." Yes, it may have in your other equipment. This one may not do that and you will have to change powder to get the consistency you want.

PAGE 15 RL550 Manual:
B. Extruded pencil type powders will not flow smoothly
through smaller sized powder funnels because of their
length. Another problem with extruded powders is getting
them into small necked cases. Many times these powders
will “bridge” across the case mouth and cause spillage and
erratic charges, There is no fast way of dispensing these
powders and if you insist on using them in small mouthed
cases it is best to weigh every charge by hand. Modern ball
type powders will do for most reloading situations. These
powders will do everything the pencil powders will do, but
without this problem. Warning: Do not use I.M.R. pencil
lead type powder in cases smaller than .30 caliber.

FWIW

 

[socal s&w]

Okay here goes Skip............
First, I bought one of the powder adjustment knobs, the ones that have graduations on them. Much easier to use than the standard bolt and wrench supplied.
Second, I changed 98% of the allen heads screws to phillips head, I didn't like looking for the right allen wrench and a phillips screwdriver fits every screw on my three SDB's.
Third, I removed the allen screw holding the powder appuratus on and replaced it with a long thumb screw (2") and a locking nut placed near the end so that when I tighten the thumb screw, it locks in place. The only thing that you have to watch is when removing the failsafe rod, you need to remove that screw as it sticks out past the failsafe. Since I dump my powder after each use, it's pretty handy not to need a tool here.
Fourth, I also did away with the often times broken primer catcher and used the hose method as you did. Only difference is that I just put my plastic trash can underneath to catch the dead primers.
Fifth, the reason that I can use the trash can below is because I made a 3/8" metal plate that all three SDB's are mounted to. I welded a small 'I' beam underneath and clamped it in a large vise that was mounted to my bench. The vise swivels, so that I have access to all three SDB's (one at a time) by swiveling the vise. (I am looking for a fourth as I planned the plate around four SDB's.)
If I can get a picture of that set up, I will post later.
I too am a tinkerer and I know that there are more upgrades to do and I am by no means 'finished' yet!

 

[epj]

How 'bout an electronic powder sensor for the 550B that would check powder level at station 3. Someone was working on such a device on the Brian Enos forum a few years back, but never heard anything more about it.

 

[Lowpower]

Tell you what Low, tell me what you want for your presses and I'll see if I can swing buying them from you. That should make it a win/win. You got some rounds, you dislike the press, I understand.

Let me buy that "junk" off of you. I'll give you $150 for the SDB and $200for the 550B. You will have enough to buy a single stage that works every time with no tinkering. Your problem will be solved and I will have two new presses.

What do you say?

I thought the discussion was what do people think can be fixed with a Dillon Press. BTW, I have 3 single stage presses.
Sorry, I didn't realize you were making it personal. My comments were directed at the Dillon Press, not you. I don't engage in personal attacks on folks on the forums so my discussion on this brand will end here.

 

[Skip Sackett]

I thought the discussion was what do people think can be fixed with a Dillon Press. BTW, I have 3 single stage presses.
Sorry, I didn't realize you were making it personal. My comments were directed at the Dillon Press, not you. I don't engage in personal attacks on folks on the forums so my discussion on this brand will end here.

Low,
Sorry you took it personal. Sure didn't mean it to be!

socal,
I forgot about the knobs! I have a bunch of them yet! I also got a variety of small knobs for such things as you mentioned. In fact, my powder measure is retained with one. Makes it a lot easier to take off and put on.

 

[socal s&w]

Oh yeah Skip, I forgot that I also bought some longer completed round bins, plus some the same size as the Dillon blues. The longer ones are about double the length, but the same width as the Dillon blues.
By trimming about an 1/8" off of the bottom 'rail' part, front to back, the part that interlocks the bins, I can turn the smaller one perpendicular to the bottom longer one and slide it to the far right. This creates enough space for the completed rounds to fall into the larger bin leaving the smaller bin for my empties within easy reach to feed the machine.
It's all of the little things that we tweak that adds up to a great help in the long run.

 

[VonFatman]

I have a 650...that's it...

Spent Primers - Fixed it with help from Brian Enos Forum.

Un-spent Primers/Ski Jump - fixed it myself...had to go "high tech" to solve this issue!

Oh...and of course the "knobs" needed on the powder drop...

I'm pretty darn happy Skip.

Bob