I'm confused by my .32-20 HE

[Kframe]

Hey folks, I've got a K-frame HE in .32-20 that has been confusing me for years.

As you can see it is a round butt with non-original grips. The barrel measures 6".
It's a pre-5-screw-4-screw frame, SN 15920. The cylinder and star are also matching.

It's been a couple years since I tried researching it, but IIRC the SN puts it at about 1903.
BUT, the barrel has patent dates into the teens.

Another thing is that the underside of the barrel is stamped 15920, but is possibly a new stamping or an overstamping, it's quite deep.

Going further, it has a front sight that does not look like it came out of the factory, I see file marks, but the rear sight notch is equally narrow, so if this is a rebarrel job the original had a very narrow blade, as well.

The frame/yoke area has an assembly number:

It's definitely a factory S&W .32-20 barrel, but I have doubts that it came on that frame.

I don't know if it's a reblue, either, surely it's seen some hard use, but mechanically it is sound. The cylinder notches look like they have reinforcing tabs inset, so I assume the cylinder has not be heat treated.

So, my questions are:
What barrel likely came on the frame, originally?
Is that front sight blade knackered, or did S&W ever make them like that?
What would one call this revolver? (Other than "frankenstein", lol)

I really haven't shot it much, I think they threw in a box of 50 when I bought it almost 10 years ago, at that time I think I paid $275.

Oh, and the action is BUTTERY smooth.

I did look through much of the .32-20 thread in this same subforum, but didn't see anything quite like mine.

Thanks for any information!
(Gotta figure out where all my books/literature ended up after the move last fall...)

 

[DCWilson]

That's a basic Model of 1902 first change with a replaced barrel. The first barrel could have been four, five, six or six and a half inches. The barrel swap is extremely likely to have been a factory replacement since it was numbered to match the rest of the gun's serialized parts. The front sight modifications are something that the owner did after the barrel was replaced. Given the patent dates, the barrel was replaced any time from 1915 to (probably) 1940, but I suppose it could even have been replaced after WWII.

Interesting specimen.

 

[JP@AK]

The frame dates to about 1904, just before the fifth screw was added. The gun has been re-barreled and I suspect it was done by the factory sometime after about 1922. Look on the left side of the grip frame, just above the butt on the front edge, and see if a date code is stamped there.
The reason I think the barrel job was done by the service department is that it was standard procedure for them to put the original frame serial number on the barrel flat when they performed this service. That's why they match.
The reason I think the swap was made after at least mid-year 1922 is the caliber stamp. From about 1914 until 1922, the stamp they used said 32 W.C.F. CTG. Only after that time did they use 32-20 CTG.
The sideplate fit suggests to me that it has been reblued, but the work is fairly well done.
The stocks are very modern - they date from sometime after about 1968.
The front sight appears to have been altered.

 

[JP@AK]

Well, it looks like David and I are on the same page (again). I doubt the barrel swap was done anytime between 1915 and 1922, however, for reasons I explained in my previous post.

 

[JP@AK]

Incidentally, the original barrel on this revolver would have had 32 Winchester CTG stamped on it. That designation was used from 1899 until about 1914.
It is impossible to tell without a factory letter what the length was.

 

[tlay]

Are you guys sure the factory replaced and stamped the serial number? It sure looks like the stamp is over the top of an old number. And if the factory did work wouldn't the grip frame be marked?
I would also say it is a reblue. I see divots and a larger gap at the side plate.

 

[Kframe]

Wonderful! Thank you all for the information, I knew folks here would be able to help.

I'll check the grip more closely later, when I'm back home, and will post what, if anything, I find.

Not sure what caused that big dent in the sideplate, but I agree at some point this was reblued.

I still have a handful of brass laying around, I may load up some light plinkers for it in the future; that sweeeet smooth DA just begs to be cycled.
And, this has been sitting in my safe nearly a decade, so might be time to let it out to stretch its legs again.
Clearly I'm not going to hurt any value by using it.

 

[Alk8944]

I basically agree with what Jack said about the barrel. After 1922 the sights were widened and the front sight would be too wide for the rear sight, which is why the top of the blade has been thinned. The gun has definitely been re-finished. I would think S&W would have re-contoured the front sight, as long as they were thinning it, so it more closely resembled the original. I also doubt they would have cut the notch. For this reason I would not be too certain that this was a factory re-barrel, in spite of the renumbering of the barrel to match. But, who really knows!

If any of the work was factory there would be a 5-point "re-work" star after the SN on the butt, and, sometimes elsewhere too. There would also be a service date in the form of 6-22, or 6.22 for June 1922. This is found on the left side of the front grip strap, under the stocks.

 

[Alk8944]

For some reason the system will not let me edit and attach to my original reply, so......

If you want original type stocks for this gun Style G-31 on this page is correct: Gun Grip - Smith and Wesson Revolvers Yes, they are listed as being for the .44 Double-Action, but they are correct for the K-Frame guns too. I have several sets on my own guns. Don't forget to order a stock screw set too! Here is a picture:

 

[glowe]

Not that it matters a great deal, but I have to agree with tray that that barrel was not a factory replacement. You can clearly see the remnants of a partially removed serial number under the new serial number. Just don't think S&W would re-stamp a replacement barrel.

 

[Muley Gil]

Not that it matters a great deal, but I have to agree with tray that that barrel was not a factory replacement. You can clearly see the remnants of a partially removed serial number under the new serial number. Just don't think S&W would re-stamp a replacement barrel.

I believe that factory would reuse a barrel, depending on whether or not they had a NOS (new old stock) barrel available.

Other members here have reported replaced parts that have had the SN stamped upon them. New frames have also been stamped with original SNs when the frame had to be replaced.

 

[Kframe]

Well, got home and checked under the grips.
No date code or any other stampings and no stars to be found.

I think you all are correct that this was not a factory rebarrel job.
Doesn't really matter to me either way, as this is no beauty queen, just a unique shooter, IMO.

I betcha I wouldn't be able to buy it for $275 today, though!

 

[Kframe]

Oh, and glad to know about correct-looking grips being available, the 'modern' ones just don't look right on this.
Thanks!!

 

[DWalt]

Occasionally, original hard rubber grips will show up on eBay.

 

[Skeetr57]

The factory didn't always use the star stamp on reworked guns. I have a NM#3 Target that was completely redone by the factory in 1956 that has a tiny date stamp, but no star. I also have a .32 RP from the teens that was sent back and had the barrel and cylinder replaced after WWII (maybe other parts too), as well as being replated, and the barrel and cylinder were given the original SN. There are stars on the frame, the barrel, the cylinder and the yoke. The new barrel has the later, wider front sight and the frame was cut with a wider notch to match the later front sight. I don't know why there were variations in the rewo stamps, but they do exist.

 

[JP@AK]

We will probably never know if the barrel replacement was done by the factory. But the overstamp is not necessarily proof that it wasn't. Neither is the absence of a star and a date code. The star was sometimes left off at the request of a customer and date codes have been known to be missing as well.
Perhaps the Historical Foundation could ferret this out, but I don't think the gun is worth the cost of having that done.
This revolver will be a good shooter in any case, and that is all it will ever be.
An entertaining and interesting thread.

BTW kframe, I would suggest you shoot only lead bullets from this gun.

 

[Kframe]

We will probably never know if the barrel replacement was done by the factory. But the overstamp is not necessarily proof that it wasn't. Neither is the absence of a star and a date code. The star was sometimes left off at the request of a customer and date codes have been known to be missing as well.
Perhaps the Historical Foundation could ferret this out, but I don't think the gun is worth the cost of having that done.
This revolver will be a good shooter in any case, and that is all it will ever be.
An entertaining and interesting thread.

BTW kframe, I would suggest you shoot only lead bullets from this gun.

Thanks, I'm glad this thread is of interest to the group.
I agree that it's unlikely worth it to get a S&W or SWHF letter on this, I'll just keep it as a fun old plinker, and yes, lead bullets only, and probably loaded just above minimum.

If there's any of my S&W's that I want to get more documentation on, it'd by my M1917 (see other thread) or my 1947 K-22 (#160xx).