df53141
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Imminent defeat, NRA not opposing universal background check?
- Thread starter df53141
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It's for the children.
NRA just posed on their FB page that this info is inaccurate as told by NBC...go figure.
"An article appearing today on NBCNews.com is falsely reporting that NRA will not oppose legislation being negotiated in the U.S. Senate that would mandate background checks for all gun purchasers. The NRA opposes criminalizing private firearms transfers between law-abiding individuals, and therefore opposes an expansion of the background check system."
"An article appearing today on NBCNews.com is falsely reporting that NRA will not oppose legislation being negotiated in the U.S. Senate that would mandate background checks for all gun purchasers. The NRA opposes criminalizing private firearms transfers between law-abiding individuals, and therefore opposes an expansion of the background check system."
HereSinceTheLongHunters
Member
According to Mr. Keene, the NRA originally stood behind background checks, but later opposed them because the databases were not being updated or inclusive of the mentally ill, etc as promised. There is a very good YouTube video by Mr. Keene that includes his account.
vikgorr
Member
Looks like same old game: Good Cop - Bad Cop.
jtpur
Member
Rumors have a remarkable way of uncanny accuracy. I hope not bit don't bet on it not being true.
russinator
Member
Got Email today from NRA: Statement from Chris W. Cox, NRA-ILA Executive Director, regarding inaccurate NBC story alleging that NRA won't oppose background check bill.
HereSinceTheLongHunters
Member
I think its just funny that they're passing all this expensive legislation at the same time they're turning the lights off for lack of funding. I'm just about finished grinding my teeth about all this. The laws are already very tight and specific about what you can and can't do with a gun in my state. I'll abide by those laws..and be 1000% responsible about it... that's why its OK for me to own one. And I sure as heck am getting involved on the local and political side prior to the 2014 and 2016 races.
retarmyaviator
US Veteran
After the back stabbing the NRA gave the NFA community in 1986, the NRA saying in public they will fight this while at the same time behind closed doors giving a different version sounds about right. I have as much trust in the NRA as I do any other political organization - none.
HereSinceTheLongHunters
Member
+1 And don't forget the next phase is the slow grind through the court systems. If the NRA were on target, they'd be setting up a fund and recruiting attorneys specifically for the defense of those Bullied Under Gun Legislation (Bugles, eh?) .. suits have to be filed and the cases will have to work their way up the to the Supreme Court... Laws can be overturned. Look at whats happening in NY: Judge Tingling threw out M. Bloombergs soda ban and people are telling MB to back off.
Amen and Amen.
Me neither. NRA consistently has supported background checks for as long as I can remember, I believe back to the '70s, but they also have consistently stated there must be no link - or even the possibility of a link - to a database that could be used later for a road-map to confiscation. That is nothing new. As long as they stick to their guns on the road-map thing, it will not be a tragedy and it will probably be the best we can hope for - until the next lunatic comes along and goes on another murderous rampage because there simply is no good way to address the mental illness factor without sacrificing doctor-patient privacy that most good docs want to protect AND until we determine and agree on "precisely" what mental conditions make gun ownership dangerous. Good luck with both, but especially with that last one.
retarmyaviator
US Veteran
I am a dealer and I support forcing states to add mental health records to the NICS system but what I am not in favor of mainly because it is unworkable is forcing background checks on private sales. Without some form of registration this will be impossible to manage because the Feds will have no idea who owned what and when at the time of a sale.
Lenny_D
Member
I have a question to ask of the firearm dealers. When you guys do a NICS check and you provide all the buyers info Im assuming you also provide a dealer id number. So after you get a proceed I've seen my dealer write a number down on the 4473. Is that a transaction number or number of the NICS person? The only info my dealer gave over the phone about the firearm was whether it was a handgun or long gun. I didn't hear any discussion of model make or serial number.
I've also heard that the NICS check, correct me if I'm wrong, had to be destroyed within a certain time period and the only information that must be kept was the 4473 form. So my question is how do we know the NICS people are destroying the information and if they are why do they provide a transaction number? What I'm saying is that we may already have gun registration. Please correct me if my information is wrong.
Len
I've also heard that the NICS check, correct me if I'm wrong, had to be destroyed within a certain time period and the only information that must be kept was the 4473 form. So my question is how do we know the NICS people are destroying the information and if they are why do they provide a transaction number? What I'm saying is that we may already have gun registration. Please correct me if my information is wrong.
Len
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Gun registration is immaterial to both sides. It's like the old joke-book retailers used to have to fill out back in the late '60s to sell ammunition. Just stupid and irrelevant.
What is useful to those who envision confiscation as the solution to the problem (and make no mistake, the problem is not "gun violence," as they call it) is a database of owners. When "they" come to your home, they will not have a list of x-y-z guns to find and seize. They will tear the place apart looking for anything and everything you have. "They" already know - or have the means to know - who "we" are, or at least most of us. Nevertheless, NRA is rightly concerned with not giving them more/newer/convenient tools to make things temptingly easy.
As to the concerns about illegality, of course firearms records are maintained contrary to statute. I've read about instances of it all my life and have seen it right here in my own county. Unfortunately, none of the offenders (usually elected officials) ever gets charged, convicted, and imprisoned. I suspect the statutes are carefully written so that there is no mechanism or penalty for dealing with violations. Laws are for us little people, not for "Big Brother."
Lenny_D
Member
M29,
Please don't confuse my question with acquiescence. I'm not in favor with private sale background checks. I see it leading directly to registration. I just wanted to understand the process of the NICS check.
Len
Please don't confuse my question with acquiescence. I'm not in favor with private sale background checks. I see it leading directly to registration. I just wanted to understand the process of the NICS check.
Len
retarmyaviator
US Veteran
Taking your questions in order -
Dealer ID is the FFL number.
The number given by the NICS operator is the confirmation number that the background check was performed. It goes in block 21B of the 4473. This is something ATF will look for during an inspection. Quick way for a dealer to get in trouble is not recording that number.
When asked by the NICS operator "Type Firearm?" dealer is only allowed to reply with the following terms - "Handgun", "Long Gun" or "Other". Other covers frames and receivers. No other information about the type firearm will be given to the NICS operator.
By statute all NICS information taken in by the FBI NICS center must be destroyed prior to the next business day.
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boat770
Member
I would think if and when that happens would be about 2 seconds prior to the preverbial SHTF. Right? Sure hope it never comes to that.
I had to drop my drawers to get a CHL here, which is a big negative to any privacy issues.
5Wire
Member
NRA has published a statement that refutes the NBC "news" claim and it's easily found on the NRA ILA website. Here's a snip:
I would hope so too, but we really are a pretty long-suffering people. Just look at what Americans have stood still for while what seems like half of our manufacturing infrastructure and jobs has been systematically exported (destroyed) with hardly a "whimper" from us. Given that, I am not sure I would try to predict what sort of reaction Americans may have over personal weapons issues, but I hope you are correct - and that the goons in Warshington are appropriately leery of us.
Me too, brother.
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