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nachogrande

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This IS NOT another what would you do thread. Recently a man here confronted a woman whose husband parked in a handicapped spot while others were available, then went into the convenience store with the son. Hearing there was a heated argument outside the handicapped parker went outside and found his wife going at it with this older man. He "allegedly" walks right up to the guy & shoves him to the ground, the guy gets to his knees pulls a gun & shoots him once killing him shortly after. Seen the video? Thoughts/opinions? Police did not arrest sighting stand your ground laws, & NO BURDEN OF PROOF on the shooter to prove anything. (as of this time) I'm withholding my thoughts/opinions for the time being.
 
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...the shooter armed himself...and then intentionally proceeded to confront illegal parkers like an armed vigilante...he could have and should have called the police with his concerns rather than confronting anyone...especially while armed...

..the illegal parkers were wrong...but not dead wrong...
 
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ParadiseRoad said:
...the shooter armed himself...and then intentionally proceeded to confront illegal parkers like an armed vigilante...he could have and should have called the police with his concerns rather than confronting anyone...especially while armed...

..the illegal parkers were wrong...but not dead wrong...
Click to expand...
I agree. Being that I do have a disability, I do get irked when I see able bodied people abusing handicapped parking.
However, also being a concealed carrier, I avoid getting into confrontations that can escalate to violence.
Personally, I leave the handicapped spaces for people who are worse off than I am.
 
MY THOUGHTS/OBSERVATIONS

There were other regular parking spots that looked even closer.
Confronting a women who wasn't even driving & letting it get that heated, while armed???: eek:
Wrong as he may have been about the parking, finding someone in a verbal argument like that WITH YOUR WIFE, the shove does not come as a surprise.
AFTER the shove & the guy was down, the shover was still close & IMO a kick to the head was IMMENANT.
Once the gun was produced the shover appeared to backup & the shovee did not fire for app 3-4 seconds, NOT IN DANGER when the guy is backing away.
The parking lot vigilante had a history of confronting other non handicapped people parking in that spot.
IMO from a one angled view & no sound. This one oughta get interesting. With the vigilantes history, will there be any liability/blowback on the store??? Should they have seen this coming???
My sympathies to the wife & kid.
Go looking for trouble & you will usually find it. :rolleyes:
 
JMHO, this was not a shoot situation. The old man started the argument and the attacker backed off when the gun was drawn.
OTOH, the attacker should not have assaulted the old man without first verbally confronting him and he was wrong to park there in the first place.
Serious mistakes on both sides resulting in a needless death.

There's an old saying:
"Never mess with an old man. They're too old to fight and too tired to run. They'll just kill you and be done with it."
 
I think if I am armed it's my responsibility to avoid an argument or fight if possible. As far as parking in handicap spaces go yes it irks me just like getting cut off in traffic bad service at restaurants on and on but not enough to argue ,1 if it's a business call the manager politely explain the problem,2 if it's illegal activity call the police or law enforcement entity for the area and again politely and concisely explain what you saw and where it happened ect. It makes every concealed carry person look bad when some one who knows they are armed intentionally gets in a heated argument regardless of the situation and deadly force is used to end it. I wonder if the guy would have been so outraged if he hadn't been armed that he would have done the same thing. It seems to me some people let having a weapon on them give them a lot of courage I wonder if it's real or they have read too many novels . Just me I guess but like earlier statement if you go looking for a fight or trouble it's out there and easy to find .
 
Grayfox said:
JMHO, this was not a shoot situation. The old man started the argument and the attacker backed off when the gun was drawn.
OTOH, the attacker should not have assaulted the old man without first verbally confronting him and he was wrong to park there in the first place.
Serious mistakes on both sides resulting in a needless death.

There's an old saying:
"Never mess with an old man. They're too old to fight and too tired to run. They'll just kill you and be done with it."
Click to expand...

If the above is correct, and I have no reason to believe it is not. If this had happened in NC, the shooter would most likely be charged. A lay person understanding of NC laws is you lose the right to claim self-defense if you are the aggressor or if the aggressor attempts to retreat.

I can't but help but think the shooter was looking for a fight and got one. Now the shooter may in up spending the rest of his life in a much bigger fight than he ever believed could happen.

How many lives will be changed forever over a stupid parking spot, and two hot ego driven tempers. What the Hell is wrong with people today?
 
First and foremost (to me), the deceased attacked an old man to the extent of knocking him down. Who knows what health issues the guy has? He could have hit his head and died. There was no way of knowing whether or not the physical attack would have continued. The shooter put an end to it.

You don't attack someone for arguing with your wife, you walk away from it unless the aggressor raises the stakes. Plus, what kind of hero attacks an old man?
 
This is another one of those very tricky situations that come down to one question:

To what degree can you legitimately claim self-defense in a situation which you needlessly provoked yourself?

It's a bit like jumping into the tiger enclosure at the zoo with a rifle, and then claiming you had to shoot the tiger because it threatened you.

From the video, it is very hard to make an argument that a reasonable person would have been in fear for his life. He did get a quite strong shove to the ground, but there is no indication this was the beginning of a sustained attack, and the shooter fires quite deliberately after a few moments, even though the other guy starts backing away as soon as the gun is pointed. I think this would look bad to a jury.
 
Absalom said:
47? Old man? You risk offending a lot of members here :D
Click to expand...

...I agree...I definitely wasn't old 18 years ago when I was 47...

...I may have thought so at the time...

...another thing interesting about the story is that the handicapped parking spot is around the corner of the building...not even close to the door...

...it's at the Bud Light sign in the photo below...

1astore.png
 
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AGAIN MY ARMCHAIR OPINION

I BELIEVE the shooter, once shoved "so violently" to the ground had a reasonable fear of pending injury, there was a significant age difference & disparity of force, not to mention any medical conditions the shooter may have had. BUT the threat diminished greatly when the deceased began backing up at the sight of the gun. Don't bring your fists to a gunfight. :rolleyes:
 
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ParadiseRoad said:
...I agree...I definitely wasn't old 18 years ago when I was 47...

...I may have thought so at the time...

...another thing interesting about the story is that the handicapped parking spot is around the corner of the building...not even close to the door...

...it's at the Bud Light sign in the photo below...

1astore.png
Click to expand...


There is no sign. Just painting the lines and stop stone blue does not make a handicap spot in Florida. There must be a sign for those that are color blind.
 
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