Increasing draw speed and improving reaction times

[CouchPotato]

I'm just looking for feedback here and I'm curious what you guys do. Hopefully I'll learn something new.

I'm using the free IPSC Shot Timer app for my phone, I carry the M&P Shield 3.1" with a manual saftey, and typically I appendix carry with a T.Rex Sidecar holster in it's lowest ride position.

I do understand that a taller holster position on my belt would speed me up or also a gun with a larger grip, such as the M&P Compact. I don't have small hands and the small grip of any micro-9mm slows me down, like it does for many people. The small M&P Shield and the low-ride holster position allows me to successfully conceal under a t-shirt in all situations. For those reasons, I don't want to change.

The manual saftey does not slow me down simply because at this point, deactivating it is an unconscious motion that's part of my draw stroke while building my grip. At this point, not having a manual saftey actually slows me down because without a click under my thumb, unconsciously my thumb starts fishing for a manual saftey to deactivate. In my opinion this is a good problem to have.

I'm from the school of thought that increased performance with a firearm as a CCW comes from the skill of the operator and not from different equipment. The skills I develop in my quest to master the M&P Shield will carry over to any handgun.

With live-fire draw training, I don't go max speed, and I try to focus on good form, efficiency, and accuracy.

With dry fire training, I'll push the speed as hard as possible. After a long dry fire session, as I get fatigued, I'll even occasionally punch myself in the face due to my hand slipping off my sweatshirt as I clear it. I'm pointing out the self-inflicted uppercuts to underscore that I'm really pushing it as fast as I can and I'm trying to clear my shirt with explosive speed. Despite that, I'm seemingly at a plateau. I'm able to consistently achieve speeds of 0.9 to 1.1 seconds reliably, without warming up. After I've warmed up, occasionally I'll get around 0.8 seconds with 0.76 being my best. I actually got that today and while effective, I'll admit it was sloppy. I attached is a screen shot from the app.

If I could hit the 0.7 to 0.8 mark consistently while cold, and with good form, I'd be happy.

Using the IPSC Shot Timer app in my phone during dry fire, with the volume sensitivity very high and the echo delay turned all the way down, it can hear and record the times for when my hand meets the gun, the draw, sometimes the deactivation of the saftey, and the dry-fire itself.

With the IPSC shot timer app, I've noticed two ongoing problems that I struggle with.

1. When going fast, like with the included screen shot, I'll often deactivate the manual saftey as the gun is leaving the holster. I prefer to deactivate it around the time where my support hand meets the gun because at that stage, the gun is pointed away from me.

2. My reaction time to the beeper is slow, typically my hand meets the gun at around 0.4 to 0.6 seconds. This point is what motivated me to make this post.

If I could react to the beeper faster, it would shave off a couple tenths from my times. Getting my hand on the gun is literally my biggest time leak because everything that comes after only takes me 0.2 to 0.3 seconds.

Do any of you have any pointers on how to react to that beep more quickly?

 

[AJ]

I at one time taught a Combat Pistol Course in the Corps. Basically Cooper's school at Gunsite tailored to the Corps needs. Speed is developed in practice. Dry firing will get the mechanics down. Actual drawing and firing accurately comes from live fire drills.When teaching the basic course we fired over 1000 rounds in a five day course. Some got fast, some were accurate, and a few were fast and accurate.How fast you can react to a signal in my mind comes from within you.

 

[SnidelyWhiplash]

I took several courses with the late Chuck Taylor...great guy and was very sorry to see he passed several years ago.

Chuck demonstrated what he called "presenting the handgun"...not "drawing" it. He said "drawing" is what you do with a pencil and paper. He broke the presentation down into component parts...five or six steps in presenting the handgun. We practiced each continually then worked them together until it looked like one fluid motion. With practice and repetition comes speed and accuracy.

Chuck was the best and fastest person I ever saw with a handgun. He worked us with a two second drill...from whistle to whistle we had to present the handgun from the holster, fire two shots on target and lower to the ready position and assess whether additional shots were require...within two seconds.

We had two relays doing this...Chuck did it with one relay. He cleared leather, hit his target with two shots and lowered to ready before anyone else could even clear their holster. He was incredible.

Follow the basics...practice...drill and drill even more until it becomes fluid...no wasted motion.

Chuck's book The Complete Book of Combat Handgunning...if you can find a copy...while dated in some respects such as equipment used...is still very relevant today. I have each of Chuck's books on hand gunning, the combat shotgun and the combat rifle...all signed by him for me...and the information and techniques contained is still worthwhile and extremely helpful if not required reading for anyone interested in self-defense with a firearm.

 

[BAM-BAM]

In real life there is a 4 step decision making process that the mind goes through in reacting to a stimulus..... (something like)

Recognize
Analyze
Brain decides on what action to take
Take Action

Disrupt it and the mind loops back and starts over.........

Shooting off a timer you've already taken the first three steps [at least 2 and 3]..... hence the 2 second rule ..... vs just the time to draw and fire.

After 40 years of shooting/gaming I find I no longer have to "think" about drawing , "aiming" and firing.... situational analysis is what can hang one up..... what's happening and what do I want, or what are my options, can in the real world be the hang up!

 

[CouchPotato]

In real life there is a 4 step decision making process that the mind goes through in reacting to a stimulus..... (something like)

Recognize
Analyze
Brain decides on what action to take
Take Action

Disrupt it and the mind loops back and starts over.........

Shooting off a timer you've already taken the first three steps [at least 2 and 3]..... hence the 2 second rule ..... vs just the time to draw and fire.

After 40 years of shooting/gaming I find I no longer have to "think" about drawing , "aiming" and firing.... situational analysis is what can hang one up..... what's happening and what do I want, or what are my options, can in the real world be the hang up!

Agreed... sounds like another name for what you're talking about is an Ooda Loop

Observe
Orient
Decide
Act

And like a loop, our brains repeat those four steps over and over.

 

[CouchPotato]

I took several courses with the late Chuck Taylor...great guy and was very sorry to see he passed several years ago.

Chuck demonstrated what he called "presenting the handgun"...not "drawing" it. He said "drawing" is what you do with a pencil and paper. He broke the presentation down into component parts...five or six steps in presenting the handgun. We practiced each continually then worked them together until it looked like one fluid motion. With practice and repetition comes speed and accuracy.

Chuck was the best and fastest person I ever saw with a handgun. He worked us with a two second drill...from whistle to whistle we had to present the handgun from the holster, fire two shots on target and lower to the ready position and assess whether additional shots were require...within two seconds.

We had two relays doing this...Chuck did it with one relay. He cleared leather, hit his target with two shots and lowered to ready before anyone else could even clear their holster. He was incredible.

Follow the basics...practice...drill and drill even more until it becomes fluid...no wasted motion.

Chuck's book The Complete Book of Combat Handgunning...if you can find a copy...while dated in some respects such as equipment used...is still very relevant today. I have each of Chuck's books on hand gunning, the combat shotgun and the combat rifle...all signed by him for me...and the information and techniques contained is still worthwhile and extremely helpful if not required reading for anyone interested in self-defense with a firearm.

This is good advice.

I've been breaking it down in a similar way and drilling that component of the draw over and over.

That method has helped me tremendously with various components of the draw.

 

[AJ]

I took several courses with the late Chuck Taylor...great guy and was very sorry to see he passed several years ago.

Chuck demonstrated what he called "presenting the handgun"...not "drawing" it. He said "drawing" is what you do with a pencil and paper. He broke the presentation down into component parts...five or six steps in presenting the handgun. We practiced each continually then worked them together until it looked like one fluid motion. With practice and repetition comes speed and accuracy.

Chuck was the best and fastest person I ever saw with a handgun. He worked us with a two second drill...from whistle to whistle we had to present the handgun from the holster, fire two shots on target and lower to the ready position and assess whether additional shots were require...within two seconds.

We had two relays doing this...Chuck did it with one relay. He cleared leather, hit his target with two shots and lowered to ready before anyone else could even clear their holster. He was incredible.

Follow the basics...practice...drill and drill even more until it becomes fluid...no wasted motion.

Chuck's book The Complete Book of Combat Handgunning...if you can find a copy...while dated in some respects such as equipment used...is still very relevant today. I have each of Chuck's books on hand gunning, the combat shotgun and the combat rifle...all signed by him for me...and the information and techniques contained is still worthwhile and extremely helpful if not required reading for anyone interested in self-defense with a firearm.

Taylor worked for Jeff Cooper in the beginning

 

[SnidelyWhiplash]

Tayor worked for Jeff Cooper in the beginning

Yes...he did. Chuck was declared by Jeff Cooper as the first 4-weapon master. He attained Gunsite master certification in handgun, shotgun, rifle and submachine gun.

 

[WR Moore]

While an admirable pursuit, the speed of your presentation and engagement takes second place to situational awareness and an appropriate reaction to what's caught your attention in the vast majority of instances. Reaction time to an unexpected action has been documented at about 3 times that of an expected action.

 

[BAM-BAM]

Agreed... sounds like another name for what you're talking about is an Ooda Loop

Observe
Orient
Decide
Act

And like a loop, our brains repeat those four steps over and over.

That's it!!

 

[Rpg]

You’ll be quicker if you don’t wear only a T shirt.

An open button front shirt over the T-shirt with the T-shirt tucked under the gun so you just brush it aside with the little finger of your drawing hand is quicker than involving your off hand to fiddle with your T-shirt.

 

[Marshal Tom]

Not sure what you are trying to accomplish in terms of going faster than you already are. As I recall, the standard that most consider as a goal is 1.5 seconds and many want to get below a one second draw. you are already below that thresh-hold. I am 73 and I am trying to accomplish 1 second consistently. I would say that you are doing pretty well as is.

 

[AJ]

Yes...he did. Chuck was declared by Jeff Cooper as the first 4-weapon master. He attained Gunsite master certification in handgun, shotgun, rifle and submachine gun.

Learned well didn't he? None of us are born with these skills. They are learned/developed over time. Good for him he learned. developed, and was able to teach what he had acquired to others.

 

[AJ]

Not sure what you are trying to accomplish in terms of going faster than you already are. As I recall, the standard that most consider as a goal is 1.5 seconds and many want to get below a one second draw. you are already below that thresh-hold. I am 73 and I am trying to accomplish 1 second consistently. I would say that you are doing pretty well as is.

1.5 seconds was what our time limit for drawing from a closed M1916 holster and firing two rounds. Some of the faster folks were at about 8/10's of a second.

 

[murphydog]

Interesting question and a worthy goal - but I think your title meant to say 'decreasing' or 'improving' reaction time". However, if you want I can teach you how to increase it.

 

[alwslate]

The best way to speed up your draw speed and reaction time is to be aware of your surroundings. If you see trouble coming your way have your gun in your hand before it gets close to you.

 

[Smoke]

I used to work nights here. It's a propane storage facility that used to be out past the edge of town. The fence was a mile around and 90% of the property was undeveloped. When I worked nights out there I would walk around that fence line and practice a four-point draw all night long.

I never did it fast. I never tried to do a quick draw. I just went through the motions 1,2,3,4,3,2,1. I would be willing to bet that I did it a hundred times a night.

One night I was walking that fence line and I Disturbed something in the fields and it got up and ran past me and cleared the fence and took off. I always thought it was an antelope or deer. It could not possibly have been a human being because that fence was 8 ft tall and it cleared it in one shot. Anyway it wasn't till whatever it was cleared the fence that I realized that I had drawn my gun.

 

[jbull380]

My best advice with few words. Work on smooth not speed. Speed is a byproduct.

 

[SnidelyWhiplash]

Smoothness begets speed.

 

[CouchPotato]

Interesting question and a worthy goal - but I think your title meant to say 'decreasing' or 'improving' reaction time". However, if you want I can teach you how to increase it.

Copy that.

Good catch, I fixed it.