Indiana Deer Legal Rifle Success!

[Skip Sackett]

Our deer regulations are pretty weird, I will have to admit but, you know what happens in America when a line is drawn in the sand. SOMEONE is going to see how close they can come to it without going over....Well, that has happened.

The Indiana DNR has these rules for rifles used for deer hunting:
Bullet size must be .358" or larger
Case length must be over 1.160" & under 1.8"(that changed this year. It used to be 1.625" but that meant you could hunt with a 500S&W Rifle and not a 460S&W! So, they changed the regulation to include it.)

What folks did was went to work on creating a wildcat to fit the bill. There are as many of these cartridges out there now as Carter has little pills but, the one I am using is pretty generic as far as these wildcats go.

Mine is called the 358WSSM. It consists of any of the WSSM cartridges necked up to .358". The ballistics are very close, and can be exceeded, to the 358 Winchester.

I have experimented with loads and powders and through many trials and tribulations, I have come to a standard load for mine. My platform is the Thompson Center Encore and the barrel is made by MGM. My powder of choice has gone to Hodgdon's H322. It is one of their "extreme" powders and is temperature insensitive. That is a good thing since I hunt in Indiana where in November, it can range from 60*F to 0*F and that all in the same week!


The bullet of choice has been given to Nosler. They have two that perform pretty well, but, the heavier one is overkill in my mind. They are the Accubond in 200gr. With this combination, from this rifle, I can put three shots in less than 1" @ 100 yards and they are leaving the barrel @ 2520fps.
Effectively, this is a 300 yard gun. If sighted in 6" high @ 100 yards, it will be POA/POI @ 300 yards. Virtually one aiming point on center mass of a deer gets you a good shot for a mighty long way out!

At any rate, here are some pictures from this year's hunt, so far.

Entrance:

Exit:

The shot was only 80 yards or so and that bullet just kept on truckin'! What was kind of cool is that both lungs were toast. Even so, it cleared two fencerows, but had a real hard time with the second. I heard it crash into it, then, 30 or 40 feet and it was DRT.

The Accubond is a bit too much for this small of game. But, it did work!
Here is a picture of the round. Cute little booger, isn't it?

 

[badguybuster]

Nice deer. Congrats

 

[358156hp]

Wow! You truly need a Goldilocks cartridge to hunt deer. It can't be too small, it can't be too big, it must be juuust right.

 

[BobB257]

Hey Skip,
I think that is cool as all get out. You get to have an excuse for a custom rifle and dies because the state made you do it! It doesn't get better than that for a reason to add one more gun to the safe, when going to the comptroller of the house for permission.
Who would have thought that a state DNR would be so helpful in providing cover for new firearms.

Cool cartridge and deer.

 

[Skip Sackett]

Well, here is the second one that was taken with this "not too big--not too small" round. Only thing is, I didn't shoot it, the wife did!
Sunup was @ 0715 or there abouts today and at 0740 I got a text from her saying: "Deer, coming in about 200 yards" I replied back: "SHOOT!"
About 4 or 5 minutes later I hear: B O O M !!!! and then nothing.
So, I'm texting like mad and trying to get an answer as to whether I need to come track or what, nothing, no reply. Starting to worry a bit....Then, I get the reply: "Got it!"
I said, be right there!
It isn't huge, neither was mine but it is her first antlered deer and not too shabby of a one at that! I am proud and she is happy!

Here it is:

7 point. You would have thought it was a 40 point as happy as she was! That is a win/win for me! hahaha

 

[chud333]

Congrats Skip,
I hear ya' on the regs. for Indiana. They allow rifles but effectively
want you to use a pistol cartridge for limiting distance shooting.
I guess they figure the state is densely populated enough to not
allow very long range shooting. I like your approach. I have been
looking for something along the lines of what you have come up
with. Could you PM me with any info on where i might be able to
score one of those rifles ? Along with who is making the brass and
cost ? Availability of dies and what not. I would appreciate it.
Best Regards, Chuck

 

[Rule3]

Nice job Skip and Mrs Skip! I know you have been working on that round for a while. A 200 gr bullet?? Surprised it didn't cut the deer in half.

 

[bigmoose]

You and Wifey out huntin' deer with your own wildcat cartridge! Doesn't get much better than that. Congratulations. Best thread I have read in a while.

 

[Skip Sackett]

Thanks for all the "kudos" fellas. This has bee an awesome ride!
I do need to make something clear though, I am not the one developing this round, I am just using it with a great big smile in my face! Literally, there are about 100 or more different wild cats out there folks are developing. This year, in order to include the 460S&W in the rifle calibers, they lengthened the case regulation from 1.6" to 1.8". In doing so, they technically made my caliber obsolete. The problem with the NEW wild cats is that they have too high a working pressure to be used in a Thompson Center Encore, which by the way, is under the Smith & Wesson banner nowadays!

At this point, there are folks that are cutting back cases on everything from .45/70 to 358 Winchester. All viable and some old guns are coming out of moth balls and back into the field.

Soon, they will make all rifle cartridges legal, at least in my thinking, and then, this caliber will go by the wayside. I like it so much though, I doubt it will ever leave me!

 

[Skip Sackett]

p.s. We are a little weird I guess. She asked me when we got home if I would drill her spent case for her so she could put it on her key chain!

That's where mine is!

 

[papajohn428]

Skip, I remember when you first got that gun a year or two back, I saved the pictures you posted because I thought it was a neat idea, and a cool-looking round. Glad to hear you and SWMBO both made meat with it!

There was a run on leverguns in Indiana when they modified the cartridge requirements, for a couple years it was hard to find a 357 or 44 Marlin or Wrenchester anywhere close to there. One friend of mine is using a cut-down 45-70 case with a 350-grain bullet, for hunting in the woods. It sure beats places like Illinois and Iowa where you can only use a shotgun with slugs!

 

[SMSgt]

"The Indiana DNR has these rules for rifles used for deer hunting:
Bullet size must be .358" or larger"

Did you mean "handgun" rounds? By this, a .30-06 or any other common "deer caliber" can't be used.

 

[Zappa]

"The Indiana DNR has these rules for rifles used for deer hunting:
Bullet size must be .358" or larger"

Did you mean "handgun" rounds? By this, a .30-06 or any other common "deer caliber" can't be used.

I just Googled the Indiana DNR site and found this:

DNR: Deer FAQ's

Equipment

What are the rifle cartridge size requirements for Firearms Season?

Cartridges must fire a bullet of .357-inch diameter or larger and have a case length between 1.16 and 1.8 inches. Examples of legal cartridges now include the .460 Smith & Wesson, .450 Bushmaster, and .50 Beowulf as well as the .357 Magnum, .38-.40 Winchester, .41 Special and others.

So in fact it does appear that standard rifles chambered in traditional rifle calibers aren't allowed.
It doesn't make sense to me, but these regulations are written by clueless bureaucrats.
But it probably works out good for Henry, Marlin and Rossi because they make many rifles chambered in .357, .44 and .45LC.

 

[Skip Sackett]

Their intentions were to have the clueless population stick with popular handgun caliber carbines. Then, someone from the population looked at the rules and decided they were going to push them to the limit even if they had to develop a new round out of it.

And I am not kidding, here are hundreds of other rounds out there right now that are legal from rifles in Indiana.

Zappa's link will answer the questions pretty well for you BUT, his summary of those regulations is very accurate.. Their intent was changed by other's ingenuity! There are even a few that use belted cases as their basic case. All of them are pretty good with a bunch of stuff that are available in an AR platform. This round, while not with the bullets I use, is capable of being used in an AR-15. Just buy an upper conversion that includes a magazine and off you go! NOW THAT WOULD BE COOL!

The 450 Bushmaster is getting some play too. The short .45/70 as mentioned is another. Personally, I don't want a new round that is good for 100 yards, I have that with the 44Mag Marlin. This round, with this bullet, at this velocity, if sighted in @ 200 yards is 3" high @ 100 and 10" low at 300 which puts it right on time for the second dot of my Luepold Ultimate Slam S.A.B.R. scope. @ 400 yards, it still has more power than a 44Mag does at the muzzle of my Marlin too! NOW THAT is nothing to sneeze at!


And as far as hunting partners go, I have the best one possible! My wife and I are one in lots of ways and I am thankful to the God Lord above for giving her to me! She is a great woman, a great friend and a super woman of God! I love her more today than I did when we said "I do" on February 4th, 1978!

 

[TNDave]

That is a trick rifle! Looks like you all are having a large time with it. Congrats

 

[Skip Sackett]

Dave, we are enjoying the snot out of it, to borrow a Southern term!

 

[olskool]

i love our laws on guns here in s.c. on private land we can hunt with 22 high power rifles and up. in short we do just about what we want concerning guns and hunting. beleive it or not a very popular deer round here is 22 hornet, 223, and 22-250 i hunted with a 22-250 for decades and killed countless deer and only lost one that i made a bad shot on. we also have the longest deer season on private land. aug. 15- jan. 1 and you can hunt with a rifle bow handgun blackpowder, ect. all year. no limit on the total amount of bucks taken per person, no tags except on does if it is not a doe day. we also can bait with corn. man it's good bein a redneck.......

 

[Skip Sackett]

One of our deer make two of yours though!

Each of these bucks weighed an estimated 190-165lbs and they were only 1 1/2 - 2 1/2 years old. One guy, just the other day, had a doe that went 150lbs! An old matriarch!

But, yes, I would like to have a bit more of an open season but then again, deer seem to be getting kind of scarce around here anyway!

One park ranger the other day, told a friend of mine that there were 60 dead from "blue tongue". Whatever that is. It has reeked havoc on our deer this year.

Just thankful to the Lord for letting us see and harvest these animals.

 

[olskool]

i have to respectively disagree with the notion our deer are half the size of most. the 8 point in the full mount was a 200lb deer and the two 10 points were close to that. one 10 point i killed two yeare ago and the other this year. i don't what our state record is but i have heard of deer here approaching 250lbs. some are small, average deer here are around 100 lb does and 130lb bucks. but we do have a lot of big deer. but i will take smaller deer with a long season any time.

 

[Skip Sackett]

Thought I would post this too!

My wife's hunting attire. She made the camo skirt out of two pairs of real USMC digital BDU trousers!