HAWKEYE10
Member
I like shooting 22LR rifles and have spotted a H&R M12. I will be shooting it off the bench and was how good is this rifle? I am shooting a CZ 452 American and Anschutz 1416 HB and was wondering how it might compare. Don
Info. on a H&R M12
- Thread starter HAWKEYE10
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ColbyBruce
Member
Where were you when I was trying to sell mine?
Seriously, I liked this rifle. Mine came without sights, I added a scope mount made by Ken Viani...a true work of art. My rifle shot very well, IMHO. The stocks have ample wood in them, if you care to trim it down any. I have seen a M12 that had the stock turned to the contour of a Rem. 700 varmint and the barrel shortened to 22". It turned out very well.
P.M. me, I might be able to put you on one, though it will not have sights and the stock will be dinged a bit. My gun was out of the last batch CMP-Birmingham sold, and they were shoved into shopping carts. Here are a few more photos of mine, which is now gone.
Seriously, I liked this rifle. Mine came without sights, I added a scope mount made by Ken Viani...a true work of art. My rifle shot very well, IMHO. The stocks have ample wood in them, if you care to trim it down any. I have seen a M12 that had the stock turned to the contour of a Rem. 700 varmint and the barrel shortened to 22". It turned out very well.
P.M. me, I might be able to put you on one, though it will not have sights and the stock will be dinged a bit. My gun was out of the last batch CMP-Birmingham sold, and they were shoved into shopping carts. Here are a few more photos of mine, which is now gone.
Frank46
US Veteran
I got mine when they first came available. Paid $300 with the redfield palma sight and redfield international and an envelope full of the front sight inserts. Don't remember if mine came equipped with scope bases but since it was already drilled and tapped for them I managed to find a set. I pot on a redfield 3200 24x and planned to see just what she would do. Initial testing found out that 1.5" groups was about the best with the 22 ammo I was using at the time Ely's Benchrest gold. Trigger does need to be adjusted and also found the bolt operation to be rather hard and when I went to clean the rifle I found out why. Burrs left there by the various machining methods used to make the receiver... Stripped the rifle down and went to town on the burrs. Very fine files, stones and a assortment of silicone carbide paper 400-600 grit. Lubed the bolt after cleaning out all the debris from the deburring operation. I had some rws ammo and on occasion could get groups down to almost an honest inch. One thing did bother me was that the cheek piece or the comb was way too high. Should have bought that spare H&R M12 stock I saw at the gun show. I would suggest that if you want a better 22 match rifle and if the cmp still has them then get the kimber. Shoots better and with more brands of ammo. There was
large article put in one of the issues of "Precision Shooting" It will basically give you how kimber got their rifle to shoot more consisently.
Should be on the net somewhere. I still think the trigger is what is the stumbling block in getting these rifles to shoot well. There was a commercial H&R basically the same setup but never saw a side by side test done. Frank
large article put in one of the issues of "Precision Shooting" It will basically give you how kimber got their rifle to shoot more consisently.
Should be on the net somewhere. I still think the trigger is what is the stumbling block in getting these rifles to shoot well. There was a commercial H&R basically the same setup but never saw a side by side test done. Frank
kraigwy
US Veteran
The H&R Model 12 is the military version of the model 5200 which is a clone to the Winchester Model 52.
In military marksmanship circles, 22 trainers are used. Model 52s and Rem 40X were used but as sources dried up, H&R filled the gap.
When they came out I was running the AK NG Marksmanship Program. We had a few Winchester Model 52s and Remington 40Xs but I wanted to issue 22 trainers to the state guard units. I ordered and recieved 10 ea for each BN and seperate company.
They were extremly accurate rifles, so good I bought one myself, a Model 5200 civilian version. Still have it and it still shoots.
The H&R Model 12s & Model 5200s are every bit as accurate as the Model's 52 and 40X.
As compaired to the CZ 452s and similar rifles, they are more accurate but do to the weight, can't be used in CMP and NRA Light Rifle, and Rimfire Sporter Events. They do make excellent rifles for prone events like the ISU English matches.
The only difference between the Model 12 and the Model 5200 is the finish on the stock. The Civilian 5200's have a high gloss finish on the stocks. The Model 12 have more of an oil finish. There is no difference in the accuracy between the two rifles.
The army got rid of most of their Model 12s, most of which were sold through the CMP. H&R doesn't make them any more, and you can expect the prices to go no where but up.
In military marksmanship circles, 22 trainers are used. Model 52s and Rem 40X were used but as sources dried up, H&R filled the gap.
When they came out I was running the AK NG Marksmanship Program. We had a few Winchester Model 52s and Remington 40Xs but I wanted to issue 22 trainers to the state guard units. I ordered and recieved 10 ea for each BN and seperate company.
They were extremly accurate rifles, so good I bought one myself, a Model 5200 civilian version. Still have it and it still shoots.
The H&R Model 12s & Model 5200s are every bit as accurate as the Model's 52 and 40X.
As compaired to the CZ 452s and similar rifles, they are more accurate but do to the weight, can't be used in CMP and NRA Light Rifle, and Rimfire Sporter Events. They do make excellent rifles for prone events like the ISU English matches.
The only difference between the Model 12 and the Model 5200 is the finish on the stock. The Civilian 5200's have a high gloss finish on the stocks. The Model 12 have more of an oil finish. There is no difference in the accuracy between the two rifles.
The army got rid of most of their Model 12s, most of which were sold through the CMP. H&R doesn't make them any more, and you can expect the prices to go no where but up.
kraigwy
US Veteran
As a side not, the CMP does still have some Olympic sights that will fit the Model 12.
https://estore.odcmp.com/store/catalog/catalog.aspx?pg=catalogList&cat=PAS
Compared to the Anschutz, I shoot an Anschutz 1807, standard rifle. I'm not going to say the H&R shoots better then the Anschutz 54 actions but my 5200 isn't near a picky about the brand of ammo as my 1807. In position shooting (standing, kneeling & setting) I can shoot my Anschutz better. But in the prone, I can shoot my H&R as good if not a tad bit better then my Anschutz.
I also have a CZ 452 I use in CMP Rimfire Sporter, and NRA Light Rifle Matches, (both the Anschutz and H&R 5200/12 are too heavy.
The CZ 452s are extremely accurate, but because of the heavier weight I can shoot my H&R and Anschutz better.
If one want's to get into NRA or ISU small bore shooting, I don't think you can beat the H&R without going to a higher priced Anschutz.
https://estore.odcmp.com/store/catalog/catalog.aspx?pg=catalogList&cat=PAS
Compared to the Anschutz, I shoot an Anschutz 1807, standard rifle. I'm not going to say the H&R shoots better then the Anschutz 54 actions but my 5200 isn't near a picky about the brand of ammo as my 1807. In position shooting (standing, kneeling & setting) I can shoot my Anschutz better. But in the prone, I can shoot my H&R as good if not a tad bit better then my Anschutz.
I also have a CZ 452 I use in CMP Rimfire Sporter, and NRA Light Rifle Matches, (both the Anschutz and H&R 5200/12 are too heavy.
The CZ 452s are extremely accurate, but because of the heavier weight I can shoot my H&R and Anschutz better.
If one want's to get into NRA or ISU small bore shooting, I don't think you can beat the H&R without going to a higher priced Anschutz.
OP
HAWKEYE10
Member
Do you think $500 would be a fair price for one in good condition? It has no sights but I would scope it anyway. Don
kraigwy
US Veteran
Based on what the CMP charged when they had them, plus the fact that there aren't that many around for sale any more, I'd say yes.
If I ran across one at that price I'd probably jump on it, even though I have one and several other target grade 22s.
I use both scope and iron sights (Olympic Redfield) on mine. It's almost a perfect match to my Modle 70 Winchester 1000 yard rifle in 300 WM. Makes for some good cheap practice.
OP
HAWKEYE10
Member
Thanks for the information Kraig. Cheap practice!! I don't know about that. As you probably know the good 22 ammo can get expensive. I am guessing the 300 WM even when reloaded cost quite a bit.
ColbyBruce
Member
I sold my H&R M12 for $425.00 with the Viani scope mount, which at the time cost me near $100.00.
OP
HAWKEYE10
Member
They didn't say what scope mount they had for it but I gathered it was made for that gun. Don
ColbyBruce
Member
Many of these guns were D&T'd and had two piece Weaver style bases installed by purchasers. A local FFL bought the last batch of M12's from CMP-Birmingham intending them for a local BSA camp. That got vetoed, so he sold them to individuals. I paid $300.00 plus tax. The FFL did make a small profit, however, he paid an employee to accompany him to Alabama to make the purchase. I did not feel gouged on the price.
