There is a law
Full Faith and Credit Clause - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
the same law that makes your driver's license and your marriage valid in all 50 states
Interesting Conversation With A Friend Re: Permitless Carry
- Thread starter Smoke
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There is a law
Full Faith and Credit Clause - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
the same law that makes your driver's license and your marriage valid in all 50 states
S&W SS Revolvers
Member
Very well,simply, said sir.
Hang-Fire Hank
Member
LACK OF TRAINING
John, I have to agree with you from practical experience. I've been a pistol instructor in AZ for 12 years this coming March & have had over 1,000 clients attend my classes. Conservatively, I estimate not 10% can handle a gun safely, nor understand how to shoot accurately, and 0% have an understanding of the justified use of deadly force. I mentally struggle with the constitutional right v.s. the practical need to receive some mandatory training to carry openly or concealed. ALL of my students have been surprised at how much there was to learn & how much safer they felt. Because the incidence of actually using a firearm to defend life is rare, most untrained adults escape coming into harm's way; however, that's not a good reason to depend on a firearm to defend themselves or their loved ones without knowing how to effectively use it without endangering themselves or others. Firearms training should include avoidance tactics & alternative less-than-lethal defense (pepper spray). Constitutional carry avoids facing the realism of danger by untrained people. We'll never know the statistics of untrained injuries or unjustifiable premature display.
Hank M.
John, I have to agree with you from practical experience. I've been a pistol instructor in AZ for 12 years this coming March & have had over 1,000 clients attend my classes. Conservatively, I estimate not 10% can handle a gun safely, nor understand how to shoot accurately, and 0% have an understanding of the justified use of deadly force. I mentally struggle with the constitutional right v.s. the practical need to receive some mandatory training to carry openly or concealed. ALL of my students have been surprised at how much there was to learn & how much safer they felt. Because the incidence of actually using a firearm to defend life is rare, most untrained adults escape coming into harm's way; however, that's not a good reason to depend on a firearm to defend themselves or their loved ones without knowing how to effectively use it without endangering themselves or others. Firearms training should include avoidance tactics & alternative less-than-lethal defense (pepper spray). Constitutional carry avoids facing the realism of danger by untrained people. We'll never know the statistics of untrained injuries or unjustifiable premature display.
Hank M.
Let the inconvenience be on the criminal.
THANK YOU.
Why do we have to pay for a permit, but criminals get the
same booking process for free? Let them pay for their own
booking.
Half the reason we are stuck with such a crappy criminal
justice system is it is much too convenient for criminals.
Everything is handed to them on a silver platter. Instead,
let's charge them for EVERYTHING, food, board, clothing,
i.e. saddle them with a REAL "debt to society" to pay,
BEFORE THEY ARE RELEASED from prison.
If they were also required to learn a job skill before their release,
it would not only delay their getting back on the streets, they would
have some other vocation besides crime to fall back upon when they
got out.
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ChattanoogaPhil
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"Allowing people".
It's called The Second Amendment to the United States Constitution. One of the best ideas, ever.
bhayles
Member
"Allowing people".
It's called The Second Amendment to the United States Constitution. One of the best ideas, ever.
Huh. Funny...I thought the "allowing" part was covered in the Bill of RIGHTS too Phil. Were we wrong about that? Has the 2nd been repealed while we weren't looking...or did it get cancelled
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I'll ask you what I asked John, can you cite evidence (actual evidence not anecdotes) FROM YOUR OWN STATE that firearms related accidents gone up since Arizona went permitless?
Yeah, actually that data is pretty readily available
http://www.slate.com/articles/healt..._deaths_and_self_defense_findings_from_a.html
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ChattanoogaPhil
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Unfortunately, a lot of folks including gun owners view the 2A as merely a "loophole" that needs to be closed.
Richard Simmons
Member
Lots of folks use a firearm to save a life or deter a crime without the benefit of formal or even informal training. I would suspect that these instances occur in a home or place of business many more times then on the street as the result of CCW or open carry but they occur all the same.
I've had this "mandatory minimum of training" discussion with a number of individuals both in person and online. The majority that are in favor of it range from those that feel it's a requirement for CCW to those that feel it should be mandatory for even the purchase or outright ownership of a firearm.
Universally their argument in favor of the "mandatory minimum training" is that it's a safety thing and to a person, they assume the training will be well within their current skillset or that as a current gun owner, CCW permit holder, etc. they will be grandfathered in should any training become law.
When I point out to them that any new law requiring mandatory training could specify anything from the most basic safety training to very advanced range qualification over multiple days, at high cost with frequent requalification they don't seem to have thought that far ahead.
Personally I put the responsibility for any and all training on the individual and not on another gun law designed to make certain folks feel better about a problem that doesn't really exist in the first place.
I've had this "mandatory minimum of training" discussion with a number of individuals both in person and online. The majority that are in favor of it range from those that feel it's a requirement for CCW to those that feel it should be mandatory for even the purchase or outright ownership of a firearm.
Universally their argument in favor of the "mandatory minimum training" is that it's a safety thing and to a person, they assume the training will be well within their current skillset or that as a current gun owner, CCW permit holder, etc. they will be grandfathered in should any training become law.
When I point out to them that any new law requiring mandatory training could specify anything from the most basic safety training to very advanced range qualification over multiple days, at high cost with frequent requalification they don't seem to have thought that far ahead.
Personally I put the responsibility for any and all training on the individual and not on another gun law designed to make certain folks feel better about a problem that doesn't really exist in the first place.
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I live in VT, which has permit-less carry.
That is great, except for one reason: No reciprocity with other states!!
I have a non-resident permit for NH and CT, and having those does allow me MUCH more territory in which I can legally carry concealed.
Of course, some states only allow reciprocity if your permit is a RESIDENT permit....
I actually wish that VT had optional carry permits, just so we might have reciprocity with others.
Of course, I'm also a guy who would willingly submit to written tests, range qualifying, and fingerprinting/background checks, and fees....if that would result in a 50 state Permit to Carry!!
That is great, except for one reason: No reciprocity with other states!!
I have a non-resident permit for NH and CT, and having those does allow me MUCH more territory in which I can legally carry concealed.
Of course, some states only allow reciprocity if your permit is a RESIDENT permit....
I actually wish that VT had optional carry permits, just so we might have reciprocity with others.
Of course, I'm also a guy who would willingly submit to written tests, range qualifying, and fingerprinting/background checks, and fees....if that would result in a 50 state Permit to Carry!!
Did you read the post before yours?
bhayles
Member
That says it all.
Ever looked at people of Walmart.com?
Horn
Member
I Had No Problem With Citizens Packing
some small traffic infraction. (Too busy) But, some of the few times I did and saw some Iver Johnson or similar hand gun laying on the passenger side and a woman driving my concern was who recommended something like that to her. I'd advise her to get something reliable and of a different caliber.
I've always felt the armed citizen (2nd Amendment) was a positive thing. We actually have no idea how many workable handguns are in this country of over 350 million people. But, given that we have a very responsible bunch of people actually considering the number of people who've been shot by whatever cause.
Its sort of like seat belts. We don't hear the stats on people dying because they were wearing a seat belt. Regarding that, if all of those canals (sugar growers) in South Florida was checked a lot of cars would be discovered! I never saw a guard rail along side any of them when I lived there. Yet. Cars go off the road, land upside
down and the driver isn't likely to be able to get out.
We had a friend who drove off one. (Likey had downed a few, knowing her) Luck was on her side. A guy in a passing vehicle saw
her tail lights glowing. Both guys got her out.
A car was recently discovered from 1968!
We hear too many stories (another today) about little kids getting hold of their mother's firearm and he shot two people. Both had non-life threatening wounds.
We don't hear about lives saved because of an armed citizen. We
know why.
Hang in there, my friend.
"People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf."
-- George Orwell
I'm a retired cop too. I was never in the traffic division and so as a district officer I never pulled over a lot of people for
some small traffic infraction. (Too busy) But, some of the few times I did and saw some Iver Johnson or similar hand gun laying on the passenger side and a woman driving my concern was who recommended something like that to her. I'd advise her to get something reliable and of a different caliber.
I've always felt the armed citizen (2nd Amendment) was a positive thing. We actually have no idea how many workable handguns are in this country of over 350 million people. But, given that we have a very responsible bunch of people actually considering the number of people who've been shot by whatever cause.
Its sort of like seat belts. We don't hear the stats on people dying because they were wearing a seat belt. Regarding that, if all of those canals (sugar growers) in South Florida was checked a lot of cars would be discovered! I never saw a guard rail along side any of them when I lived there. Yet. Cars go off the road, land upside
down and the driver isn't likely to be able to get out.
We had a friend who drove off one. (Likey had downed a few, knowing her) Luck was on her side. A guy in a passing vehicle saw
her tail lights glowing. Both guys got her out.
A car was recently discovered from 1968!
We hear too many stories (another today) about little kids getting hold of their mother's firearm and he shot two people. Both had non-life threatening wounds.
We don't hear about lives saved because of an armed citizen. We
know why.
Hang in there, my friend.
"People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf."
-- George Orwell
Ogandydancer
Member
My state really has some quirky rules regarding this. My grandson is only 20 which means he cannot buy a hand gun he can however possess one, he cannot buy ammunition for one nor can he get a CCW permit however he can open carry (which is legal in my state for anyone who can own one) so in light of all this I think our laws need a little revising. I would like to see every state go permitless i.e. anyone who can legally possess a hand gun can carry concealed. Also if you live in a state like this then any other state who requires a permit must honor your state. I don't think however this will ever happen.
mc5aw
Member
I've encountered enough people with permits who make me feel unsafe through their collective stupidity and lack of firearm handling skills. Dispensing with permits and the modicum of training/education that is required means a lot more people devoid of basic fundamentals will potentially be armed. I'm more concerned about being shot by some idiotic yahoo than making the process to own/carry a free-for-all.
Richard Simmons
Member
They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.
-- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), Letter to Josiah Quincy, Sept. 11, 1773.
Those who desire to give up freedom in order to gain security will not
have, nor do they deserve, either one.
-- President Thomas Jefferson. 1743-1826
safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.
-- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), Letter to Josiah Quincy, Sept. 11, 1773.
Those who desire to give up freedom in order to gain security will not
have, nor do they deserve, either one.
-- President Thomas Jefferson. 1743-1826
I shouldn't need anyone's permission to carry in these United States, none.
Around here, elitism.
