Interesting Conversation with S&W Customer Service Rep about M&P Upgrades

[S&W-Admirer]

I called S&W to see if my M&P .40 (12/12) and 9mm (8/13) FS pistols had the latest upgrades.

The customer service rep I talked with confirmed that my 9mm had the new 1/10 twist barrel. When I asked about the triggers, he said the triggers had not changed. I asked him again to verify, and he said it again. He seemed agitated with my call and basically said the new trigger was Internet speculation.

I'm just telling you what he said. He was rather gruff with me. I don't know if he was having a bad day or weary of these kinds of questions.

 

[jwalts27]

I used to go the S&W Shooting Center before it closed down. You wanna see gruff? Those guys who worked there were the biggest ever. There would be a line out the door and only 1 guy on a register and the 4 other guys would just stand there and give dirty looks. I would have never went there but i wanted to try an M&P before i first bought one.

 

[BrianE]

They went from having douche bags to lazy people... would of been nice with something in the middle...

 

[Rastoff]

You know, I'm starting to wonder about the supposed upgrades to the trigger. I have seen one picture of an altered slide stop that is supposed to help with reset, but I've never seen one in a gun. All the M&Ps I've recently handled in the stores feel the same to me.

What gives? Did they make a change or not?

 

[Mike1161]

My 40L Pro CORE has had all of the Apex upgrades. I was able to compare parts before they were installed and both the USB and the sear are different than the Apex. Mine is an August 2013 gun.

The trigger is now like a completely different gun. It's not a 1911, but it is so much better than how it came from the factory.

 

[Ofc.JL]

Gentlemen; it's easy to tell if a "new" M&P has the new trigger system. Lock the slide open, drop the mag, and with a flash light(I can't see squat w/o light anymore , ) look at the inside trigger bow where it turns into the trigger from the mag well. If you see a very small letter "H", bingo! New trigger. Something that S&W learned when engineering the Shield. New "H" trigger system consists of a new trigger bow, new slide lock lever, and a new sear. S&W said that the new "H" system will not fit into the older guns, but I am not so sure about that. Futher reseach is required to know. I will advise when I find out. I do know that the .45 M&P did not get the improved trigger, and I don't feel they really need it, IMHO.
What I did for my older M&P 40 FS was put in an Apex RAM, on top of stock trigger componets. After several hundred rounds, the trigger pull and break is very nice and I shoot that pistol very well, at high speed.
Anyway, the new "H" trigger in 9 & 40 cal M&P's it much better than it used to be. Crisper break, with less backlash, and a nice, medium positive "click" on reset. Just as an aside, the new "H" sear is a dead ringer for Apex's sear. Looks to be the same basic thing. Interesting, yes/no?
stay frosty, my brothers,
Ofc.JL

 

[S&W-Admirer]

If what you report is correct, both my Dec '12 .40 and Aug '13 9mm have the "H" trigger bar. The trigger pull feels the same on both pistols.

I wonder why the S&W customer service representative would deny the existence of a new improved trigger.

Did S&W change the twist rate on .40 barrels or just 9mm? If so, roughly when were the changes to the barrels made?

 

[Ofc.JL]

Admirer, AFAIK, the change to the new twist rate on the 9mm was around the first of this year, exact date unknown. New twist rate 9mm barrels are dimpled under the chamber area. 1 or 2 dots it think it is.
Go to "10-8 Performance website and look around under archived reports. You will find a lot of good info from those guys. They shoot M&P's a bunch.
.40's are unchanged. And they don't need it anyway, as .40 M&P's work and shoot well.
As far as the phone service person at S&W; he probably has no idea. S&W is just slammed busy right now, to the point of using everybody they can to answer phones. I have run into that several times. S&W is not trying to BS anyone, they are just swamped.
Thanx, be safe.
Ofc.JL

 

[prairie]

The following question was asked on another forum, with S&W's response following it.

"I have heard it mentioned by others that S&W has made an improvement in the M&P pistol triggers, at least on some versions.
It is a general consensus that almost all older M&P pistols will show a huge improvement with the installation of Apex trigger parts.
Supposedly newer guns have factory triggers that rival older guns modified with Apex parts.
Any truth to this? "

"Hi, The newer M&P pistols use a modified trigger (Different than original M&P triggers.) based off the SHIELD trigger design. There is a very noticeable difference between the two.
Thanks, S&W"

 

[shwagondawheels]

I just got a brand new pro series CORE and the trigger sucks like the old ones. The salesman was trying to sell me this BS. I could still feel the grit but I didn't care because I still wanted the CORE like yesterday..

Apex parts otw for this one too

Test round fired 10/23/2013

 

[sarge1967]

I got a Pro Series 4.25 9mm and the trigger is MUCH BETTER than the standard ones. Is it the best? Not even close but at least now they are shootable.

 

[shawn mccarver]

Is it possible that the S&W rep was being coy?

After all, it was NOT the trigger itself that was changed, but the trigger BAR (the "linkage," if you will, that runs back through the mag well and to the sear and sear housing), the slide lock and the sear.

Now, I realize that the trigger and trigger bar are probably sold as a single part, like the similar part on a Glock, but the trigger proper is the part you see inside the trigger guard when the pistol is assembled.

Perhaps the CS rep was just in a "if you can't use the right terminology, I am not going to help you mode."

Pure speculation on my part, but like Jeff Cooper once said, there is a need for use of precise terminology with respect to firearms. He gave an example. A "magazine" and a "clip" are not the same - he physically held up one of each. He said, "If you say, throw me a clip, this is what you will get," and he held up a filled clip of .30-06 ammo from his M1 Garand. Good point.

Now, should the CS rep have been more helpful and explained it further, such as "the trigger wasn't changed, but the trigger bar, the slide lock and the sear were changed, and it gives a more positive re-set, etc., etc." Probably.

I have never understood the need for hearing or feeling a click, which both Vickers and Hackathorn describe as one of the worst "training scars" of the modern era. But, everyone is free to shoot however they wish.

And if it makes everyone feel better to feel or hear a click instead of simply going full speed and letting the trigger return forward, like you would with a revolver (Jerry Miculek does this and he is pretty fast ) and like Rob Leatham does with any semi-auto (no one ever accused Leatham of being a slouch in the speed department either), then by all means, have a click.

I do not find such a system helpful and pay no attention to it on a Glock or an M&P.

To each his own.

 

[Skydivinglawyer]

Pro trigger ships at 4.5 absolutely false.

I started back with a M & P .40, 4 inch barrel, used. 5.5+ lbs and horrible (even though it was supposed to be 6.5 lbs.
It was polished for $50 which brought it to 4.5 and smooth.

I then proceeded to purchase a new M & P pro 5 inch barrel Fiber Optic. The one advertised in full page ads as being 4.5 lbs. The trigger on every one in the shop was lousy and well above 4.5. There was one C.O.R.E. on display and it had a better trigger, obviously different, but not as good as what I achieved on my used 4 inch.

I purchased the new Pro and took it straight for a polish job that took it for over 5.5 lbs gritty to again, 4.5 smooth.

I'm the guy who's been buying and supporting S & W for over 50 years. I resent the advertising gimmick of 'PRO'. At any change you get, pick the M & P and spend the 'PRO' money on work that will give you performance rather than PRO stamped on your pistol.

Time is money and aggravation. I had to buy the PRO to get the 5 inch barrel. But, it's cheaper, better, and calmer to do it the way I did it. I should not have to call S & W to beg them to answer the phone so I can ask them why their firearm is nowhere near what they advertise.

S & W is just like Harley Davidson to me. It's a love-hate relationship that I cannot live without.

I just got a brand new pro series CORE and the trigger sucks like the old ones. The salesman was trying to sell me this BS. I could still feel the grit but I didn't care because I still wanted the CORE like yesterday..

Apex parts otw for this one too

Test round fired 10/23/2013

 

[skiwesson]

I started back with a M & P .40, 4 inch barrel, used. 5.5+ lbs and horrible (even though it was supposed to be 6.5 lbs.
It was polished for $50 which brought it to 4.5 and smooth.

I then proceeded to purchase a new M & P pro 5 inch barrel Fiber Optic. The one advertised in full page ads as being 4.5 lbs. The trigger on every one in the shop was lousy and well above 4.5. There was one C.O.R.E. on display and it had a better trigger, obviously different, but not as good as what I achieved on my used 4 inch.

I purchased the new Pro and took it straight for a polish job that took it for over 5.5 lbs gritty to again, 4.5 smooth.

I'm the guy who's been buying and supporting S & W for over 50 years. I resent the advertising gimmick of 'PRO'. At any change you get, pick the M & P and spend the 'PRO' money on work that will give you performance rather than PRO stamped on your pistol.

Time is money and aggravation. I had to buy the PRO to get the 5 inch barrel. But, it's cheaper, better, and calmer to do it the way I did it. I should not have to call S & W to beg them to answer the phone so I can ask them why their firearm is nowhere near what they advertise.

S & W is just like Harley Davidson to me. It's a love-hate relationship that I cannot live without.

Just got back from the Gunshop & came home with the PRO,this is what I wanted to know if Id be better off with the Std. & an APEX kit instead of getting the PRO & spending even more to change the trigger,well its too late ,looks Ill change the trigger anyways ,looks like I shoulda did what you mentioned.

 

[Bkreutz]

Just got back from the Gunshop & came home with the PRO,this is what I wanted to know if Id be better off with the Std. & an APEX kit instead of getting the PRO & spending even more to change the trigger,well its too late ,looks Ill change the trigger anyways ,looks like I shoulda did what you mentioned.

Depends on use. I have a standard 9 with the stock trigger and I use it for HD and sometimes competition in the stock class. I carry a 9c with a stock trigger and I also have a 9L Pro Core with an Apex FSS that I use in the enhanced service pistol class (both IDPA). I've done some other external modifications to the Core as well but since it's a competition only gun it's what I decided. There's really nothing wrong with the stock trigger for general usage. Shoot your Pro for a while (or polish up the stock trigger bar, you'd have to do that with the Apex kit anyway since they use the stock trigger bar) and see how you like it. Start modifying it after you have a fair amount of time on it, that way you'll know for sure what you want to do. My Core has over 25K rounds through it, not a single hiccup.

 

[dlcra]

LOL, get a load of this...

Gentlemen; it's easy to tell if a "new" M&P has the new trigger system. Lock the slide open, drop the mag, and with a flash light(I can't see squat w/o light anymore , ) look at the inside trigger bow where it turns into the trigger from the mag well. If you see a very small letter "H", bingo! New trigger. Something that S&W learned when engineering the Shield. New "H" trigger system consists of a new trigger bow, new slide lock lever, and a new sear. S&W said that the new "H" system will not fit into the older guns, but I am not so sure about that. Futher reseach is required to know. I will advise when I find out. I do know that the .45 M&P did not get the improved trigger, and I don't feel they really need it, IMHO.
What I did for my older M&P 40 FS was put in an Apex RAM, on top of stock trigger componets. After several hundred rounds, the trigger pull and break is very nice and I shoot that pistol very well, at high speed.
Anyway, the new "H" trigger in 9 & 40 cal M&P's it much better than it used to be. Crisper break, with less backlash, and a nice, medium positive "click" on reset. Just as an aside, the new "H" sear is a dead ringer for Apex's sear. Looks to be the same basic thing. Interesting, yes/no?
stay frosty, my brothers,
Ofc.JL

Here I sit at my desk, 40c broken-down, under a super bright desk lamp AND with a magnifying glass! Is the 'H' laying on it's side just before the trigger bow turns into the trigger? (I bought my 40c 11/01/12 but have long ago pitched the box so I do not have my gun's mfg date).

 

[Rastoff]

I just looked at my M&P .40S&W that was manufactured in May of 2013. The trigger bar has an S on it, but nothing else. So, at least at that point, they hadn't upgraded the trigger components yet.

 

[Rob224]

Guess I must be blind but I am not seeing any letters when I look at mine unless 9mm are not marked the same.

 

[curlysir]

My M&P40 Pro (10-30-2013) has the H on the trigger bar but does not have the slide stop with the bump, the slide stop appears to be the first generation. Does however have a reset that you can feel and hear if you listen for it. Trigger was gritty at first but has improved with shooting.