Interesting M29-10 barrel problem.

[SRDesign]

So a couple of months ago I bought one of these new. It's one of the 3" Lew Horton M29 square butt .44 Magnums...

I put a box o' .44 Special shells through it, brought it home, put a wet patch through it, looked down the bore and saw something funny. After 50 rounds, it was fouled unmercifully. So I ran a bronze bush through it a few times until I got all the lead out. But what I thought was the the last bit wouldn't come out.

So I ran a bronze brush through it a few more times. This time, no change. Hmmm.

So I ran a bronze brush through it a LOT of times. No change. The last bit wouldn't come out. Hmmmm.

So I put a steel brush through it a few times. No change. Hmmmm.

So now I'm getting perturbed, so I chucked up the steel brush in the cordless drill, thinking that will get the fouling out. No change. Well, what the %^#@*&!

So I take it to my gunsmith buddy, who's got a bore-scope, and the pics below are what we see. The "fouling" is steel; it's part of the barrel!

I'm guessing the barrel is one of those done on the new EDM (or is it ECM?) process, and there was something wrong with the unit that does the rifling. The "fouling" is raised steel in the grooves just forward of the throat, and is sufficiently raised in the grooves that accuracy, as you can imagine, is a sometime thing, and lead bullet fouling is horrendous. Closest to the throat it's almost as high as the adjacent lands.

The pics below are made with my digital camera on macro, the second of which was taken down the barrel, viewed from the muzzle end. Damn. How'd that barrel ever make it out of the factory? You reckon S&W will replace it?

 

[SRDesign]

So a couple of months ago I bought one of these new. It's one of the 3" Lew Horton M29 square butt .44 Magnums...

I put a box o' .44 Special shells through it, brought it home, put a wet patch through it, looked down the bore and saw something funny. After 50 rounds, it was fouled unmercifully. So I ran a bronze bush through it a few times until I got all the lead out. But what I thought was the the last bit wouldn't come out.

So I ran a bronze brush through it a few more times. This time, no change. Hmmm.

So I ran a bronze brush through it a LOT of times. No change. The last bit wouldn't come out. Hmmmm.

So I put a steel brush through it a few times. No change. Hmmmm.

So now I'm getting perturbed, so I chucked up the steel brush in the cordless drill, thinking that will get the fouling out. No change. Well, what the %^#@*&!

So I take it to my gunsmith buddy, who's got a bore-scope, and the pics below are what we see. The "fouling" is steel; it's part of the barrel!

I'm guessing the barrel is one of those done on the new EDM (or is it ECM?) process, and there was something wrong with the unit that does the rifling. The "fouling" is raised steel in the grooves just forward of the throat, and is sufficiently raised in the grooves that accuracy, as you can imagine, is a sometime thing, and lead bullet fouling is horrendous. Closest to the throat it's almost as high as the adjacent lands.

The pics below are made with my digital camera on macro, the second of which was taken down the barrel, viewed from the muzzle end. Damn. How'd that barrel ever make it out of the factory? You reckon S&W will replace it?

 

[powerkicker]

I bet they replace it.

 

[s&wchad]

Originally posted by SRDesign:
...So now I'm getting perturbed, so I chucked up the steel brush in the cordless drill, thinking that will get the fouling out. No change. Well, what the %^#@*&!...

I suspect S&W will replace the barrel. I wouldn't tell them what you did, or they might not. That sounds like a quick way to ruin a barrel to me.

 

[SJshooter]

I suspect S&W will give you a brand new gun. Please keep us updated.

 

[DougH9]

I have a 657 Mountain Gun that has a similar problem (although not quite as bad). It seems to shoot OK with jacketed bullets. I contacted Smith about it and they said that they had no 41 mag mountain gun barrels on hand, so I am SOL. I thought about installing a 44 barrel and rechambering it to 44 mag.

On further inspection mine is about the same as yours. Please let me (us) know the outcome.

 

[Sgt 127]

So now I'm getting perturbed, so I chucked up the steel brush in the cordless drill, thinking that will get the fouling out. No change.

I really woudn't do that.

 

[MidnightCookieMonster]

I have the exact same problem with mine. So far they have refused to replace the barrel!
It is parent metal that was not fully removed when the rifling was cut by - quote " S&W's 'new' rifling process" and they insist "it is within S&W's current specifications".


Good Luck!

 

[27-2]

s&wchad, the barrel is already ruined. if they don't have any barrels on hand they need to make some. if s&w don't take care of ya'll i'll quit them. now i got to go to the safe and check mine.

 

[Kobold_27]

That is gawd-awful!

If THAT is considered to be within factory specs., S&W has another thing coming if they think consumers will put up with that.

If I were you, I would call Lew Horton and let them know. I would also contact my dealer and make a case for a refund or replacement.

Please keep us updated, I sure hope S&W makes this right and doesn't send anymore out the door that are made like that!

Best,

Michael

 

[Mule88]

Before I buy any gun new or used one of the first things i do is check out the bbl, just for something like that.

 

[SRDesign]

Well, I called S&W this morning, and they are sending out a pre-paid shipping label. They have the barrels for this gun in stock --good thing it's a new gun, eh?-- and they are going to give it a look-see... I will update as the situation unfolds.

 

[MidnightCookieMonster]

I was told the same thing - "we have barrels in stock"
Got my hopes up to no avail - as when they actually received the piece, they would refund my PURCHASE money but refused to FIX the barrel as it was "in spec" - don't have my purchase receipt anymore so told 'em to return it...

Mebbe it increases accuracy and resale value when it's got this 'extra rifling' - waddya think? Hey - maybe they have still got a bunch of junko barrels in stock.. hmmmm ..

Here's my "in spec" piece of junkola - ain't it purdy? You decide if this 'guano' is acceptable

apparently "the head of the S&W revolver business" says it is!! ....and who am I to argue? how's that for their supposed "lifetime warranty"?

Have to stop writing as I'm hotter than a tea-kettle right now!

Again - Good Luck with yours!

PS:
This is the scenario...of what I think happened at S&W...
1. Some bright young engineer at S&W has the idea to make the rifling process cheaper via ECM instead of the 'traditional' methods
2. S&W management commit to the cost saving project and invest the capital to purchase the equipment
3. No process validation is done to see if its capable before the new equipment is purchased
4. The investment has been made and the process is discovered to be incapable (i.e. crap)
5. We're in trouble - we spent all this money and it doesn't work like we planned- let's open up he specification!

Sound like it has the ring of truth? It should - I've seen it happen before in other manufacturing plants....

 

[44wheelman]

maybe this is the beginning of micro-groove at S&W?

okay not even funny
well sorry you guys got hosed, but thanks for sharing with the rest of us. Now I won't buy a new S&W without a bore-light & thorough inspection of cone area.

 

[505Gibbs]

If this IS an ECM barrel then their process is totally out of control since there are several companies such as John Nowlin[custom 45's ACP] that only use this process and some of his items have won more than a few championships!

 

[trapper189]

Just great. I just bought a 29-10 6.5" and checked everything but the barrel. It's new. I get home read this thread and check mine. Three of the groves look like this:

I'll be calling S&W on Monday.

 

[Grayfox]

Do the new guns still use an 18 degree forcing cone? You might be able to clean that up a bit if you recut it to 11 degrees, maybe? If the factory won't fix it, that might be worth a try.

That is really sad. Just one more item to add to the list of reasons not to buy a new S&W.

 

[SRDesign]

Wow. I thought I had a one-of-a-kind problem that was a bit on the odd side. But it appears the boys in Springfield are serving up boat loads of junk as good...

Here's another interesting picture. It's a six month representation of the value of S&W Stock. It's lost 84% of its value since October... I'm not surprised.

 

[29-10]

Well my membership was finally approved. My new 29-10 bounty hunter has the same problem though not as bad the others here though its hard to tell because it's blued. and it has out of saami spec? barrel cylinder gap as well. extremely disappointed it was becoming my favorite gun.If they don't fix it i guess i will have to replace it with a older model and never buy a new smith&wesson again.

 

[trapper189]

Well, the nice CS guy at S&W is sending me a prepaid shipping label to "bring that puppy in" as he said. I checked 3 686s at the shop where I purchased the 29 (no other 29s in stock) and their rifling looked clean. Hopefully, my new Bounty Hunter has no issues when it arrives later this week. I'd stick to older models as well, but they aren't automatically better. The 629-1 I also bought last week doesn't have the endurance package. I'll see if I can get the cylinder to backspin later thus week.