interesting opinions on the "best ammo"

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Originally posted by flop-shank:
Mixed info there. The advise he gives to use birdshot for home defense from a shotgun is not good.

#2 Birdshot from a 12 or 20 is perfectly fine for across-the-room or down-the-hall self defense. There's hardly any expansion of the pattern at that distance, and it doesn't matter what size the 1.25 to 1.5 ounces of shot is.

I once shot up an abandoned old house that the local FD was fixing to burn down for practice. The effects of #2 birdshot, BB, and #4 buckshot on old-fashioned walls and solid-core and paneled doors was quite impressive.

No flame, JMO and experience.

Noah
 
Fair enough, Noah. No offense taken. Two days ago I shot a coyote with #6 shot (1 5/8 oz. 3" loads, not cheesy crap) at 15 yds. twice, and then twice more as he made tracks with my Ithaca 37 Deerslayer. I did not recover it's body. I'm very leery of smaller shot sizes. I was hoping to shoot woodchucks at closer ranges. I feel terrible.
 
It's apparently an old article - things like "Thunderzaps" and IMI ammo aren't commonly seen these days. Now if this was 1993...

It's also strange that the 89-90 FBI studies (which Fackler and other respected folks worked on) are termed "silly" yet there's advice to follow Ed Sanow's advice (the guy who once said that 147 gr ammo wouldn't even reliably cylce the slides of 9mm autos...) and some simply strange statements such as 100rds of +P being able to ruin a lightweight/alloy framed revolver but fiftyish it fine.

There's been a bunch of threads about shotgun load choices lately, including one that linked to gelatin tests.

Try to select heavy for caliber or at least medium weight choices from reputable makers, bonded bullets meant for LE use are often a good choice.
 
Curious about coyote not dropping to 4 shots with #6 shot at close range. Now and then over decades I have shot coyotes at maybe 30 yds with 1,0 oz of #6, #5 or #4 lead shot and had one-shot kills with head-neck or lung shots. These were always tight choked, long barreled guns that pattern about 80% at 40 yards, so lots of pellets hit the critter. Perhaps the Ithica 37 Deerslayer has short, cylinder bored barrel. When I have patterned such barrels with 3,0 inch mag 1 5/8 oz loads I got very wide, thin, patchy patterns, even worse with 1 7/8 oz. Such 20 inch barrels also have about 250 fps less velocity than the 30 inch barrels of my old doubles.

You really don't want to get hit with 1,0 oz tight cluster of #6 or larger birdshot at 1200 fps.

Niklas
 
I guessing the pattern wasn't dense enough. No doubt I killed him, and I could tell I rung his bell. I was planning on shooting at woodchucks at about eight yards or so. I was unprepared for a coyote and had never seen one in the wild before. I would shoot him again because he was a varmint, but I still don't like to make a critter suffer any more than it has to.
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F/S,
I think those cylinder bore guns loose their pattern at an awesome rate? The smaller the shot, the more "awesomely" they loose it at! An 18" piece of plumbers pipe feels like it's 2 furlongs in length indoors @ close quarters. Outdoors? It feels like a 2 " shooting @ the 100 yard range.
 
I refer back to my comment about the media coverage of the FBI 1076. The ignorance of this author is breathtaking. "Mediocre?" I have never heard that anyone that has ever actually fired a 1076 has come to that conclusion.
 
Originally posted by Spotteddog:
F/S,
I think those cylinder bore guns loose their pattern at an awesome rate? The smaller the shot, the more "awesomely" they loose it at! An 18" piece of plumbers pipe feels like it's 2 furlongs in length indoors @ close quarters. Outdoors? It feels like a 2 " shooting @ the 100 yard range.
I think you're right, Spot. my IC 20" 870 has done a damn on racoons at slightly shorter distances with ammo from the same box that I shot the coyote with. I intend to try #4 buck with a flight control-type wad if such a load is available. That should work nicely from that gun, for chucks or coyotes, I would think.
 
Originally posted by Noah Zark:
Originally posted by flop-shank:
Mixed info there. The advise he gives to use birdshot for home defense from a shotgun is not good.

#2 Birdshot from a 12 or 20 is perfectly fine for across-the-room or down-the-hall self defense. There's hardly any expansion of the pattern at that distance, and it doesn't matter what size the 1.25 to 1.5 ounces of shot is.

I once shot up an abandoned old house that the local FD was fixing to burn down for practice. The effects of #2 birdshot, BB, and #4 buckshot on old-fashioned walls and solid-core and paneled doors was quite impressive.

No flame, JMO and experience.

Noah

Sir, no offense, but thugs are not made out of plaster or wood. I have to agree with Mr. flop-shank on this one.

Here's another anecdote. When I was a teen-ager hunting with my dad, he once shot a pheasant at about 10 feet with a 2-3/4" 20 gauge and No. 6 shot. The bird lurched in the air, so we knew he was hit, and he went down. He then ran nearly 200 yards before expiring. When we cleaned the bird, we found the entire shot charge, including the plastic wad/shot cup, about 2 inches inside the bird.

Maybe (probably?) that was a one-in-a-million thing, and pheasants only rarely commit violent crimes, but FWIW, I would not trust any birdshot load to penetrate enough on a human target.

JMHO.

Hope this helps, and Semper Fi.

Ron H.
 
What turned me off after reading the first paragraph is the citation to Marshall and Sanow, two rather discredited writers. Ayoob I have more respect for.
 
F/S,
I haven't autopsied every makers #4 Buck? But the Federal plated, with the buffering (coarse plastic powder), printed a tighter circle in mine than the others? In fact, that applied for a 590 (20"), Win. 1300 18" and the Rem. 870 18 1/2", all running a cylinder bore. Compared to some manufacturers loadings (those being unbuffered, without collar, soft non-plated lead) the Federal load mentioned above, will sometimes pattern 15%-30% smaller. FWIW?
 
Out of date, certainly. Some good info, some not so. Over-reliance on Marshall and Sanow is no worse than over-reliance on Fackler, in my not-so-humble opinion, and I'd not do either.
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All one can do is read what is out there and decide for themselves. At the end of the day, the best ammo you chose is what you may use to defend your life.
 
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