Internet Cop Bashing

[BLACKHAWKNJ]

I wouldn't say there's a declining pool of qualified applicants, rather, like the military, police work no longer appeals to people with certain attitudes, mores, values.
70 NYCHA employees have just been arrested, charged with corruption, "pay to play".
People from some parts of the country where there is little social mobility have told me police and sheriff's departments too often become "family" businesses, run for the benfit of those who run them.
Nearby Princeton, NJ is known for the "Princeton type", people who think their wealth, education, family connections, etc. exempt them from the rules. And are snobbish and condescending.

 

[cmj8591]

Your being a cop does not necessarily connect you in any way with anyone else who holds that job, except that you want to claim the benefits of group identity without also enduring the negatives.

The difference is that the people who you are connecting with if you're a cop are people you will have to depend on when you get into a fight for your life. It's a difficult concept for someone who has never been in those circumstances to grasp. It's like trying to explain combat to someone who has never been in a real battle.

 

[RetCapt]

Let me come at this from a different perspective from anything I have read here or in similar such threads.

And this is where LE heads should roll, mercilessly.

In our department, and I think LE in general, the background investigation was initiated when the eligibility list was getting close to the candidate. The background investigation is based on the personal history form completed by the candidate, and then goes far on from there. The sequence then was passing the background investigation to progress to the polygraph, then passing the polygraph exam to progress to the psychological assessment. Once those phases were successfully passed the candidate had only to pass the physical and vision exams. But each of these, in the order I listed them, was intended to cull out all but the most suitable candidates.

The polygraph, in particular, is an effective culling tool. One of the first questions on the polygraph (and repetitively asked using different phraseology) was if the candidate had or had not been completely truthful on their personal history form. That is a sudden death type of inquiry. Very effective.

There is no question that bad cops, when found, need to be fired. But to prevent hiring bad cops in the future the chain of command leading to the hiring of that bad cop needs to be closely and critically scrutinized. This scrutiny needs to extend all the way up to whomever makes the final hiring decision.

I remember back when some departments were not doing polygraph exams and/or psych evaluations due to the expense. There was an assumption that the background investigation would bring out any such deficiencies on the part of the candidate. Maybe, but not dependably reliable. If a LE agency was/is not doing these steps, it is a costly false economy.

In each of these three phases there is administrative review of what has been done prior to passing the candidate on to the next phase. When a bad LEO is found, it is not sufficient to just terminate that individual. The system that allowed that candidate to be hired needs to be reviewed to prevent future such hires. From the background investigator on up, those who passed on an unsuitable candidate must be held accountable. It needs to be stressed at the outset to those in the personnel portal that their professional survival depends on not passing on unsuitable or questionable candidates. This needs to become part of the department culture.

I have not read of any agency doing this, despite bad cops being out on the streets, which means that the machinery is still there to put more cops on the street who should have been culled.

There has to be responsibility and accountability, including the most severe sanctions (firing), for administrative failures to cull out unsuitable candidates.

There will still always be candidates who somehow slip through, but I think this critical approach will reduce that incidence.

The buck stops with the agency head. If a department needs a house cleaning, that is where it must start.

 

[Yaworski]

I find it interesting that someone wonders why people want to bash the police and I relate times that the police outright lied about the law or threatened me because he didn't like people with guns. What happens? The wagons circled and I get attacked.

Just remember, these minions of the law are the enforcement agents to the government that you don't trust. When the government decides to take your property, they'll send one a police officer who will say, "Sorry, I'm just doing my job."

Peace out.

 

[ColbyBruce]

I know a guy who fails his polygraph tests every year, starting with his name and DOB. I know a woman who has successfully defeated a polygraph test, twice. I don’t put much faith in such tests or the person administering the tests.

No one has thought to mention that some officers pay their own way through a LE academy, thus skirting the stringent pre employment evaluations that many LE departments/agencies/offices may have in place to weed out undesirable candidates.

 

[WCCPHD]

I know a guy who fails his polygraph tests every year, starting with his name and DOB. I know a woman who has successfully defeated a polygraph test, twice. I don’t put much faith in such tests or the person administering the tests.

No one has thought to mention that some officers pay their own way through a LE academy, thus skirting the stringent pre employment evaluations that many LE departments/agencies/offices may have in place to weed out undesirable candidates.

A polygraph, like a background and a psychological exam is one tool in the agency's tool box. All three (and other parts of the hiring process) have to be properly conducted and used together as much as possible.

I recently taught a background investigation class for an agency I work for on a part-time basis. I told the class the proper attitude is to start with the premise that the investigator's job is to disqualify the applicant. That should be the goal, and IF the investigator cannot do that then there is a good chance you have a decent candidate. I also told them to think about having to train the candidate, having to work with the candidate and having to work FOR the candidate in the future. This I do in hopes that it will motivate the investigator to do the best investigation possible.

I hold, and teach, that a background investigation is the most important investigation an officer will ever do because, properly done, a great deal of problems can be eliminated before they ever have a chance to become a problem. The problem is that too many officers/agencies don't see the importance and just see it as one more unpleasant task they have to complete.

Thirty years ago, the state agency I worked for kept 200 qualified applications on file at just about all times. Today, most agencies have serious problems just trying to keep MOST of their positions full. While doing a background last week, I interviewed the chief of the second largest agency in NC. She said they were allocated 804 officer positions and had a hard time keeping 700 positions full.

I'm afraid that administrators "settling" for people to fill positions will not bode well for law enforcement as a whole.

 

[UncleEd]

Filling job vacancies is just not a problem for
law enforcement agencies.

It seems to be a chronic problem throughout the
economy.

I won't attempt to give a reason. I'll leave that
to all those with clearer visions. But modesty
suggests many on this forum shouldn't try either.

 

[Ματθιας]

Speaking of internet cop bashing, I almost forgot about this:

CPOA finds Albuquerque police chief's tweet violated city policy
KOAT logo Updated: 10:37 PM MST Dec 8, 2023
John Cardinale

CPOA finds Albuquerque police chief's tweet violated city policy

Albuquerque police deliver questionable responses to community on social media

Updated: 8:56 AM MST Feb 3, 2023

T.J. Wilham Investigative Producer
John Cardinale Reporter

Albuquerque police deliver questionable responses to community on social media

Even the Chief is getting in on this. It, seems to me, that APD is inviting more of what they've been getting.

Everyday it seems like something bad is going in with APD!

I'm just a regular guy doing regular guy things, but holy smokes!!! I'd be curious as to what actual LE folks, like some of you all think about why things are the way they are with them.

 

[venomballistics]

As I said earlier. I don't have a problem with police, I'm anti-bad cop.

The ABQ PD has a bad reputation for corruption and just plain being shady. They've had that rep for decades. They had the evidence room scandal, all kinds of use of force incidents, the killing of James Boyd. and the strange death of Mary Han, layer who gave APD all kinds of trouble.

The latest scandal is that 4 or 5 DWI officers, including an LT are on paid admin after getting their houses raided by the Feds. Also included is an attorney. As a result about 200 DWI cases were dropped. Apparently this scene had been going on for decades.

Then, there's this, APD, seized a man's 1970 SS454.

City to return man's Chevy Chevelle nearly a decade after it was seized in Albuquerque - YouTube

How many people knew what was going on all along yet they did nothing about it? Have they earned the hate?

Growing up how and where I did, I'll certainly entertain the possibility that some departments have earned their hate.
I have a cousin in law enforcement that started in my home town department. Within 4 months on the force, he transferred to a different department. Without getting too deep into it, he was appalled by the conduct and policies.
He, like myself, is much happier in his current locale.

 

[Brian Parrish]

I agree

I believe the hiring problem is real and critical.
The thinking seems to be that any solution would not involve "getting the best" people and I cannot see any way to start doing that in this climate.
Honestly the leadership has confidence in themselves. They believe in the power of their administrative skills and in the written policies which they enforce on the officers as absolute. Who wants people who will use their own good judgement?
Policies. Procedures. Paperwork.
After what was done to Derek Chauvin...

Regards,
BrianD

 

[Dave.357]

Good ones and bad ones just like
Everything else.

 

[venomballistics]

Good ones and bad ones just like
Everything else.

Wherever there's power and authority, someone is looking to abuse it.
In some cases, it comes from the top

 

[Screwball]

A polygraph, like a background and a psychological exam is one tool in the agency's tool box. All three (and other parts of the hiring process) have to be properly conducted and used together as much as possible.

CBP is huge on polygraphs… and I know plenty of good candidates cut because of it. I think the last time there was a study, like they are losing 2/3s of applicants on it.

I saw one guy, multiple tours in Iraq and Afghanistan… dropped by the polygraph because they said he had threats related to terrorism. [emoji849]

My polygraph… I had to go back for a second round. Question was raised if I ever committed a serious crime. Worst thing I’ve ever had… unsafe driving due to an accident that the lady made the officer sign so she could sue the company I worked for; didn’t work for her. One of the items considered “serious” was weapon violations. At the time, I lived in NJ. Told the examiner I am really unsure about that… because NJ law is too grey that I am not sure about it.

Long day, so guy said we will schedule a second day. Asked me if I had a problem with him doing it… nope, was a decent guy. Go back, and he asks more about NJ gun law. Explain them, and say that I have carry permits in other states. Mention that transportation laws don’t really allow for handgun movement out of state (says only between certain places and out of state isn’t one of them)… so I cannot say if I broke a law. He changed the question, and asked did I follow the law to the best of my ability. Passed… and out the door.

Now, if they get paid more for the second visit, I don’t know… but it isn’t something I see as superior as other methods of investigation. Don’t care if he is doing it right or not, but I know people who just make accusations as a method of interviewing… and SOMETIMES they get something from it. I don’t hook people up to polygraphs when I’m dealing with someone who may be inadmissible. But I manage to figure it out, somehow.

 

[Moo Moo]

Don't know about the US and other parts of the world, but Australia is having lots of issues with Police recruitment. Numbers are down for Academy classes. There's more And more experienced Police leaving (retirement, medically unfit, resignation, etc) because they have had a gut full of the organizations, politicians, and other BS that gets thrown their way.

I've uploaded this one before.

 

[biku324]

There's been trouble recruiting for the NM State Police since at least 1992.

 

[petepeterson]

Filling job vacancies is just not a problem for
law enforcement agencies.

It seems to be a chronic problem throughout the
economy.

As stated earlier in the thread, the spots still need to be filled. Not a good mix for selecting LE.
Or surgeons, for that matter.

 

[johngalt]

If honest people are failing the polygraph, there is a problem with the examiner. I've been through 3 when I had a security clearance at the old job. The examiner explains exactly how the test works, reads the questions ahead of time, explains exactly the meaning behind each question, what he cares about, and importantly - what he DOESN'T care about.

The whole point is there should be no surprises during exam, and you know precisely the answer (yes or no) to each question without any ambiguity.

I had no trouble passing any of mine.

 

[ColbyBruce]

“ If honest people are failing the polygraph, there is a problem with the examiner”


My friend Bobby’s mother died on his nineteenth birthday, the day after her funeral he took the first polygraph test. Apparently each test triggers his remembrance and emotions related to that sad event.

 

[Doug M.]

Cops are recruited from the community, and as such will reflect it, good and bad. I have seen and worked with good cops as a part time cop and full time prosecutor. They are the majority. I have dealt with a few who were sub-optimal at best, and I avoided them. Been involved as a prosecutor in what turned out to be firing offenses and the cops in question went out in a blaze of excrement, deservedly so.

A knee jerk positive or negative response is not sound. One of the problems that creates tension is that this (LE and prosecution) is not a people pleasing business. At the final steps, it is a coercive compliance business. The intentional falsehoods about policing of the last few years have not helped; we have statutes in this State now that have gutted law enforcement authority.

Then, there is one agency in this state that just boggles my mind. The lower level folks are generally very good to excellent. The command level officers (Capt. and above) are generally awful, with no idea what they are doing. Their legal training and knowledge is abysmal. I am not very tolerant of that, and I have sent them scathing reviews because they earned them. They may be entitled to their views, but they are not even arguably qualified to have them. They are a decent target for a criminal and civil RICO, and too stupid to know I am dead serious when I say that. I do know one Captain who is just excellent, and I will tip him off to things that could be better, but I do not generally acknowledge knowing him because he would be maltreated.

It's all about the effort to be correct. I will help anyone I can, formally and informally. You don't try, I am not going to be tolerant or nice or any of that BS.

 

[Old cop]

I’m proud of my 30 yrs as a cop. Went up through the ranks at a measured pace, retiring as a captain in charge of our uniform division. Spent 20 of my 30 yrs in management, to include IA and sent my share of bad cops packing or to jail. Even filed a use of force complaint against another PD that arrested and beat the devil out of one of our off duty guys. Some of the officers from that jurisdiction tried to intimidate me by following me around as I did my IA investigation. Never denied there are bad cops, just that they’re very few in comparison to other professions.