Interstate family member transfer

[rustythread]

Friend asked about this--thought I knew, but the more I look, the less I know.
Friend wants to give a firearm to family member residing in another state.

No problems with legal eligibility to own firearm. I had thought there was an exemption from the ffl requirement for intra-family transfers---can't now find it in the US Code.

In lieu of ffl-to-ffl shipment and transfer, can the present owner go visit the family member with his firearm and then have a local ffl do the transfer?

 

[smoothshooter]

If the other state is CA or NY, and it's a handgun, forget it.
Long gun, deliver in person, if possible.

 

[H Richard]

If the relative lives in another state the gun must be transferred via an FFL transfer. The last correspondence from ATF just a couple months ago was if the person lives in California, Colorado, Connecticut, Delaware, New York, Rhode Island, Washington State, and the District of Columbia require the transfer through a local licensed FFL so an instant background check can be made. Maryland and Pennsylvania require a background check even if both are in the same state.

They recommend if you are giving a new gun to give a gift card and let them buy locally.

They didn't mention about all the other states, but prior info I have had left me to believe any handgun transferred to another person in another state required the transfer through the recipient local FFL.

When in doubt verify with the ATF in the state the person lives in.

 

[DUSTYDOGDAN]

It has to go via a FFL if they do not live in the same state...Even if both states are free states.

 

[sigp220.45]

I'd better go turn myself in.

 

[rustythread]

If the relative lives in another state the gun must be transferred via an FFL transfer.
...

They didn't mention about all the other states, but prior info I have had left me to believe any handgun transferred to another person in another state required the transfer through the recipient local FFL.

When in doubt verify with the ATF in the state the person lives in.

Thanks!

Neither state is one of the "problem" states.
Am I correctly understanding from your post that--in the absence of some quirky local BATF edict--the present owner can carry the firearms to the ffl in the recipient's home state for transfer? I will advise him to check with the recipient state BATF office.

 

[Abbynormal]

Don't ask.....don't tell.

 

[LVSteve]

I had a rifle I bought on GB shipped person to person from S.C to GA at the direction of my FFL. We traded DL's. According to him, my FFL, pistols were the item that needed transferring. That's free state to free state.
I try to buy C&R whenever possible.

GA and SC have a common border, and that creates another wrinkle in favor of the gun owner, unless CA is involved.

 

[2152hq]

Supposed to go through an FFl in the recipients state.

It's the interstate transfer of a firearm.

Yes, plenty of people do otherwise, but it's the strict simple interpretation .

There are no Free states or Problem states when it comes to the GCA68. It's pretty plain.


Local and state laws do have to be followed and can trip you up. That's where you can add labels.

The Bordering States rule was orig part of the GCA68.
It said that non FFl's could purchase a Long Gun outside of their state of residence but only in those states that border their state of residence.. AND the purchase must be made from an FFL who licensed business is in that bordering state,...Both states must allow the transfer for it to be legal.

The burden was on the FFL selling the gun to know the State laws from both to be sure the transfer was legal.
NO handguns were allowed to be sold/transfered under this part.

This part of the GCA was changed in 1986.
The bordering states part was removed. The law then and now still states that unlicensed (nonFFL) persons can buy and take possession of a Long Gun in any State.
The selling/transfering FFL must be licensed in that Out of State location AND there are no State laws from either State prohibiting the transfer.



There are a few States that still cling to the pre 1986 Bordering States Only policy
Shockingly NYS is one of them.

It is still up to the selling FFL to know the laws of both his/her home state and the laws of the buyers state to see if the transfer is legal.
Again no handguns are allowed to be transfered this way,,only Long Guns.

 

[mtgianni]

People are quoting laws that deal with purchases. Are they different for gifts? The law doesn't mention gifts. In Montana the requirement would include a handshake or hug, depending on gender.

 

[BAM-BAM]

Devils in the details....... reference books are at home......

IIRC here in Pa. you can gift up to parents down to children /grandchildren as long as they are not a prohibited person. But limits on going sideways... cousins Uncles etc.

Minors (18/21) can own guns but cannot have possession/control w/o a parent being present.

I know from my CLE classes given by a Pa lawyer who specializes in "gun law" most Attorneys get the laws wrong.

There is Federal law/regulations and 50 set of state laws........

 

[handejector]

All I know is in the book.
You can read it here- 27 CFR SS 478.30 | eRegulations

 

[2152hq]

People are quoting laws that deal with purchases. Are they different for gifts? The law doesn't mention gifts. In Montana the requirement would include a handshake or hug, depending on gender.

A Interstate Transfer of a Firearm is just that,,it's the Transfer of the Ownership of the Firearm.
That is what kicks in the need for the FFL involvement, the 4473 & NICS check.

It doesn't matter if it takes place as a purchase, a gift, or a trade or however the people involved want to rationalize the reasoning for the Transfer.

It's the Interstate Transfer of a Firearm.
An FFL must be involved at the receiving end to actually transfer the firearm and before doing so a 4473/Nics check must be done.

Uncle Pappy and Aunt Ruthie, Cousin Bobbie and Brother Jack are all great folks. But they are out of state.
Legally you can't just give them the gun.
You can 'will' it to them, but you have to die first for them to get it.

There is no FFL/4473/NICS needed on a Gunsmithing transaction as there is no Transfer of Ownership. The gun is returned to it's original owner (usually).
If the repair is returned to someone other than the person that sent it in for repair, then there IS the need to send it back to an FFL who then must do a 4473&NICS on the 'new' owner.

 

[LoboGunLeather]

People are quoting laws that deal with purchases. Are they different for gifts? The law doesn't mention gifts. In Montana the requirement would include a handshake or hug, depending on gender.

Sorry, but the law addresses transfers, not purchases or gifts. Any time a firearm is transferred from the possession of one person to another person we are likely to be entering regulated territory. A transfer might include a sale, a rental, a loan, a trade, a pledge of security, a bailment, etc. Semantics will mean nothing when the prosecutors are preparing the charging documents.

Transfers within a single state are regulated by applicable state law as well as federal law. Transfers across state lines are regulated by both federal and state laws. Residency within a particular state is pretty clearly defined, and some provisions are made for residents in contiguous states, but I see nothing to be gained by dancing up to the edge of the line or maybe stepping just a little bit over.

CYA is a pretty good policy. Document every transaction, dot all the I's and cross all the T's, pay a reasonable fee to a transaction FFL dealer to handle the delivery, and sleep well without worrying about anything.

 

[llowry61]

Hmm, anything in the laws about loaning the gun to the family member for their use.

 

[LoboGunLeather]

Hmm, anything in the laws about loaning the gun to the family member for their use.

I think the legal term is "iffy" in many places. In some (like here in Colorado) a prosecutor might make a case against you unless you and your beloved family member went to a FFL dealer, completed a Form 4473 and NICS check, all before handing over the firearm for temporary use, then going through the same procedure when returning the firearm to you.

Our state laws do not differentiate between temporary or permanent, a daily use for pheasant hunting or a birthday gift, or providing your brother-in-law with a defensive handgun while he is in the witness protection program. A transfer is a transfer, subject to all provisions of state and federal law.

Yeah, it doesn't have to make a lot of sense. Don't be the test case at the courthouse.

 

[llowry61]

Lobo, you always give solid thoughtful advice.

 

[Kevin J.]

For the sake of discussion. In Minnesota and many other states, face to face sales are OK. No background check paperwork needed. So a question….on said face to face sale how is one to tell if the buyer is from say Wisconsin? Legally speaking hypothetical question as I and others I am sure do our due diligence.

 

[2152hq]

Gov't issue picture ID.,,usually a State DL.
That's your due diligence.
Same thing you'd do if accepting a check.
It's the same thing an FFL Dealer uses when ID'ing a person for a transfer.
There's a place for the type of ID and the # and exp date on the 4473.

If the ID is fake, you can't be responsible for that.
They don't charge you with anything if you get stuck accepting a fake $100 bill.

 

[Bugkiller99]

Don't ask.....don't tell.

Well, posting the question on an open forum on the internet has pretty much eliminated that option.

Two "free" states. No prohibited persons. Easy transfer to do l properly.