Let's see proof.
IRS Raids Gun Store, Takes 4473s
- Thread starter Grayfox
- Start date
Well, they are sworn law enforcement agents, "1801s" in federal parlance. Their credentials authorize them to make arrests, serve warrants, conduct investigations, and enforce the law...so yes, they are going to be armed, just like US Secret Service agents and officers, FBI agents, DEA agents, Federal Air Marshals, and agents assigned to the Inspectors General offices of various federal agencies.
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Again, proof that anyone else would get prison for lying about drug addiction on a 4473. By case number, please.
Hmmm...here is what I wrote, that you found so laughable...
"...the fact is that there are checks and balances built into our justice system to keep abuses from happening, or to at least minimize their chances.
Search warrants have to be applied for, with evidence supplied, reviewed by agency supervisors, and then approved by a judge. Indictments are handed down by grand juries, composed of ordinary citizens...prosecutors or government officials don't simply "charge" someone.
Even in civil enforcement actions, when federal inspectors believe there has been a violation of the Code of Federal Regulations, and violators are facing fines rather than criminal convictions, there are protections built into the system, with several layers of approval required before a case is finalized."
You found this funny? Well, please enlighten us then...how does it "actually work"? We're all ears...please share your information with us.
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Lot of "police" for a federal government that isn't supposed to have any police power per Amendment X
Oh well.
I need not quote the news and get a "political" ding thereby.
I see...so you can't dispute what I wrote about the process by which people are charged with crimes, you just used it to make a comment about the news. Okay...that's what I thought. Thanks for clearing that up.
More of your useless posting.
The original topic of this thread was Highwood Creek Outfitters owned by Tom Van Hoose.
The Wisconsin 2015 incident you keep referring to is for Badger Guns, owned by Adam Allan. that was sued for 5.7 mil because of a straw purchase that ended up shooting and seriously wounding 2 police officers.
I can read and comprehend, you seem to lack that ability.
If you have nothing worthwhile to add to the discussion just scroll on by.
IF you have "inside info" on either case, send me a PM.
So why is Highwood Creek Outfitters even mentioned in a 2015 article that they played no part it! Somewhat of a stretch that to prints someone's woes eight years in advance of 2023…
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There is this
North Liberty Woman Sentenced to 12 Months in Prison Related to False Statements During the Purchase of Firearms | Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives
Also, going thru the court system currently is the case of the mother of the 6 year old that took her gun to school and shot a teacher. She has plead guilty to lying about marijuana use on the 4473 when she purchased the gun.
Not even close to the same.
According to court documents and evidence presented at sentencing, Miracle Star Vaughn, 27, purchased seven handguns from Scheels, in Coralville, over a period of 18 months. During the firearms purchases, Vaughn provided false information regarding her address and her drug use. One of the firearms Vaughn purchased was recovered in Chicago in the possession of Dimione Walker. Walker was a felon prohibited from possessing firearms, and also had a federal warrant for his arrest. One of the other guns Vaughn purchased was recovered in the possession of her significant other and co-defendant, Michael Haythorn, also a felon prohibited from possessing firearms.
At sentencing, the District Court found that when law enforcement confronted her, Vaughn continued to provide false statements. The District Court considered the danger to the community created by Vaughn's conduct and noted that Vaughn's lack of criminal history allowed her to purchase these firearms.
So; at least two straw purchases for felons, one of whom she lived with, and seven purchases with false address as well as lying about drug addiction. Not exactly lying about drug addition on one 4473.
According to court documents and evidence presented at sentencing, Miracle Star Vaughn, 27, purchased seven handguns from Scheels, in Coralville, over a period of 18 months. During the firearms purchases, Vaughn provided false information regarding her address and her drug use. One of the firearms Vaughn purchased was recovered in Chicago in the possession of Dimione Walker. Walker was a felon prohibited from possessing firearms, and also had a federal warrant for his arrest. One of the other guns Vaughn purchased was recovered in the possession of her significant other and co-defendant, Michael Haythorn, also a felon prohibited from possessing firearms.
At sentencing, the District Court found that when law enforcement confronted her, Vaughn continued to provide false statements. The District Court considered the danger to the community created by Vaughn's conduct and noted that Vaughn's lack of criminal history allowed her to purchase these firearms.
So; at least two straw purchases for felons, one of whom she lived with, and seven purchases with false address as well as lying about drug addiction. Not exactly lying about drug addition on one 4473.
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The article you linked was a 2015 Montana newspaper that interviewed two Montana FFL dealers, one of which was Highwood Creek Outfitters.
In a previous post you claimed that the owner of Highwood Creek Outfitters was the SAME person charged in the Wisconsin case. There NO CONNECTION unless you have inside info.
Put this to rest and take your drivel elsewhere.
Within the 2015 article Tom who worked for Highwood Creek Outfitters, but declining to give his last name, said the Highwood Creek Outfitters "do their very best to make sure all their customers clearly understand the implications of lying on the firearm transaction forms." Eight years later Highwood Creek Outfitters is being raided for doing what exactly? Seemingly NOT DOING THEIR BEST in the paperwork required by their customers! Sound to coincidentally to me! How about you, or do you somehow believe that lightning is incapable of striking twice within an eight year period to the same company mentioned in the 2015 article…
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I don't know (or care) what you are drinking or smoking that is making you so delusional.
1. the initial reason for the raid was unreported income. Not an FFL violation
2. 2015 Badger Guns, owned by Adam Allan, in Wisconsin
2023 Highwind Creek Outfitters, owned by Tom Van Hoose, in
Montana, In business there for 13 years.
How in the world are these the same business? Please, do tell, unless it its something super secret. If so, please send the decoder ring.
I'm tired of wasting my time on you.
Why was Highwood Creek Outfitters even mentioned at all in the 2015 article, if they weren't somehow involved in Badger Guns shady bookkeeping…
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Becky, would you like to borrow this?
The Great Falls Tribune could have just as easily have given the name of Joe Blow Place Outfitters of Anywhere, USA, but somehow didn't choosing Highwood Creek Outfitters of Montana out of thin air, or out of their collective arses…
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LIKE I TOLD YOU BEFORE, THEY WERE INTERVIEWED BY THE NEWSPAPER, GREAT FALLS TRIBUNE. The newspaper called them. The newspaper also spoke with Jim Mitchell another Montana firearms dealer.
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And yet unknown Tom from Highwood Creek Outfitters is being raided by the ATF in 2023, for the same reason that Badger Firearms was raided for in 2015! Seems too coincidental to me that two Firearms dealerships are being raided for virtually the same thing in the same city! There are at least five Firearms dealerships in my immediate area which haven't been raided in the last 50-years, and yet these two were raided in a span of less than 9-years…
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New info: Story Here
Lots of people were getting all bent outta shape because a gun shop was involved. Tons of speculation about government over reach, Biden, dems and whatever.
Turns out its all about tax fraud. "The agents had a search warrant and claimed that Mr. Van Hoose underreported millions of dollars of income from his business, a claim Mr. Hoose vehemently denies."
Current guess is that the 4473s are to prove more sales than actually reported.
So untwist those panties folks. Ain't no over reach or conspiracies here.
the 4473s prove make/model and a traceable ser#. Great way to prove he had the inventory, sold it, and they can estimate the sale price.
That is being answered this morning. The truth is not in dispute. Big hole that all of America has seen now, except maybe the blockheads.
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I spent 12 years as a fed doing federal program reviews and audits. If you are working with a statute of limitations, not legitimate warrant is going to allow you to seize documentation outside that statutory scope.
But then again we are seeing regulatory agencies gage in regulatory creep and over reach on a regular basis lately.
You can't have it both ways. You can't be upset over regulatory creep and over reach regarding bump stocks, 80% receivers, pistol braces, FRTs, Form 1 suppressors, or zero tolerance and revocation of FFLs over a spelling error, but be ok with the ATF and IRS attempting to create a case rather than build one with a warrant of excessively broad scope.
I was in the local gun shop the other day and it was busy. About 3/4ths of the 4473s being competed were for transfers, bringing the shop gross earnings of $35 each, on firearms that were not sold by the shop.
Sorry, but I've spent since 1979 constructing, filing, and serving search warrants and training others to do so - I still do. Any item that is evidence of the crime that occasioned the warrant or evidence of other crimes encountered while serving the search warrant can be seized. No matter the 'age.' The person whose property has been searched gets a copy of the warrant and receipt/return for items seized; a trial court judge decides if items were seized that are not evidence, and those will be returned after a hearing.
This is pretty basic constitutional criminal procedure.
The 4473s belong to the BATFE no matter the age; they can take one, all, or none from any licensee. No warrant required.
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Benton Quest
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I agree. In a warrant for financial crimes, there is typically a scope that covers a date range to include the tax years under investigation and perhaps one prior year to encompass inventory adjustments and whatnot. Typically, papers from periods beyond the scope of the warrant are not seized.
However, 4473s belong to ATF.
There are usually two sides to these stories, and the government does not get to comment until indictment.
All that said, federal search warrants, especially for financial crimes, are not easy to get. There are many layers of review.
The IRS-CI and ATF agents were duly sworn 1811 federal LE. Yes, they carry guns. In the case of the IRS special agents, that has been the case since 1919.
The threat of 87,000 new IRS agents is a specious claim. That was over a 10-year period, and many of them would have been clerical and support personnel. Probably less than 3% would have been armed 1811's.
IRS-CI had had an open job announcement for over a year. It is an almost impossible position to fill given the specific requirements they seek. Their hiring is in no way keeping up with attrition.
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However, 4473s belong to ATF.
There are usually two sides to these stories, and the government does not get to comment until indictment.
All that said, federal search warrants, especially for financial crimes, are not easy to get. There are many layers of review.
The IRS-CI and ATF agents were duly sworn 1811 federal LE. Yes, they carry guns. In the case of the IRS special agents, that has been the case since 1919.
The threat of 87,000 new IRS agents is a specious claim. That was over a 10-year period, and many of them would have been clerical and support personnel. Probably less than 3% would have been armed 1811's.
IRS-CI had had an open job announcement for over a year. It is an almost impossible position to fill given the specific requirements they seek. Their hiring is in no way keeping up with attrition.
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More useless incorrect information.
To quote you, Seems too coincidental to me that two Firearms dealerships are being raided for virtually the same thing in the same city!
Duh! Highwood Creek Outfitters is located in Great Falls, Montana.
Badger Guns was located in Milwaukee, Wisconsin.
How is this the SAME CITY as your stated claim?
For everyone's sake, please step away.
For other posters following this, in no way am I defending or accusing Highwood Creek Outfitters. I believe the ATF & IRS should do their job. Bad FFL dealers should be shut down and yes, many more are being checked.
I think they look at 4473s to help determine the number of transactions. Small piece of the puzzle.
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