Is it really true that the .40 S&W is dead?

[stansdds]

the 'foty was dead too me the day it hit the gun magazines and put on the market. Too me, it's fanfare was similar to that of the "as seen on TV" commercials for the remco super slicer juicer, heralded as the new wonder round that would do it all. I didn't believe the hype then, and time has proven (after Law Enforcement agencies across America have spent a ton of dough on the gimmick) that its not a marked improvement of the cartridges it was designed to replace. At the time published ballistics should have squashed it before it went mainstream in LE circles.

Less accurate than the .45 ACP or 9mm due to high pressures, a 10mm lite, designed for women and those with small hands. It promised superior performance to the 9mm or .45 ACP, but doesn't deliver enough to justify changing from either of those cartridges.

Unfortunately, there are some in the Military that look to the .40 S&W as the answer to what they think they need in a side arm. Hopefully that will never gain traction.

Now, the .357 Sig, I thought that round would really take off, but I don't think it has.

I am also one who was never smitten by the 40. The arguments about the 10mm being too much recoil for female officers/agents and the pistols chambered in 10mm having too large of a grip for female officers/agents is highly questionable. When the 40 was developed, it was placed into pistols designed as high capacity 9x19mm pistols. I have medium sized hands, when it comes to high cap sized pistols, the Hi Power and CZ-75 type pistols are quite comfortable for me, but the metal framed S&W's with arched back straps and the Beretta 92 series feel a bit oversized to me. I can't see how these would feel right for a female with smaller hands, so I find the argument of grip size to be highly questionable.

As for recoil, yes, the full power 10mm has recoil. It's ballistics easily match or slightly exceed those of the .357 Magnum and they both recoil about the same in my experience. Is this too much for a female? Depends upon the individual female and, just like the .357, ammo does not have to be full power to be effective, so I find the recoil argument to be highly questionable.

I don't have enough experience with 40 to say if it is any worse than the 9x19mm or 45 ACP in terms of accuracy, but it seems that the 9x19mm and 45 ACP are the more likely choices for precision pistol shooting.

When it comes to our military, I think they will stick with the 9x19mm so long as that is the standardized caliber for NATO. I know the MEU SOC and MARSOC units went back to the 45 ACP and in the 1911 platform quite a while ago, but even they are going back to the 9x19mm and this time it is in the Glock 19.

 

[Old Arkansawyer]

Never owned one, never shot one, and like stated above I never saw the
need for a 40 S&W. I own a Colt 38 super and Springfield 45 acp. I am
not one to jump on the latest most decorated band wagon. Same holds
true for plastic guns, AR's, and in line muzzle loaders.
My usual carry is a S&W 44 special and for my purposes fits all my needs.
At times carry the two mdl 11's above and occasionally a Colt .357 trooper.
I realize the gun manufactures need new guns for sales increases, gun shops
and people who write about guns need new material, but, most of their efforts
are wasted on me.
If you haven't figured it out by now, I'm an old fuddy-duddy.

 

[GRT3031]

caveat, I would never want to be on the receiving end of incoming from one.

 

[Cossack54]

The 40 S&W is not dead and probably will never die. It's all a matter preference or expense. Trends change all the time. What's happening now, is outdated tomorrow. If you follow that flow, you'll be chasing ghosts forever. The 40 cal. will always out perform the 9mm and most of the time the .45 in ballistics and/or stopping power. I've read so many articles and watched so many videos on this issue it's pathetic. Some Police departments have switched to the 9mm, not because it's a better performer but because it's cheaper. As we know, some officers purchase their own firearms, ones THEY prefer. Police departments get their monies from the taxpayers so they are limited in what they have to spend. 9mm, being cheaper is their go to firearm for that reason. That, and the fact that it has more firepower, which we know they need that because they have to send 300 rounds at an assailant to hit him 10-20 times. I own both a 9mm and a .40 and i like them both but for self defense, I would choose the .40 hands down, without a second thought. Shoot what you prefer and shoot well, and if you tell me you can shoot your 9mm better than you can a .40, then just think how much better you could shoot a .380! NO, the .40 isn't going anywhere for a long time!

 

[Jim NNN]

It's not dead for me. Pretty good defense round. Just need to find ammo that works 100% in your gun...something you might have to pay more attention to than, say, 9mm or with revolvers. The great thing to me about .40 is what happened in the ammo drought 5 years ago: It was the last cal. ammo to disappear off the shelf.

 

[Mahalo_.32]

I am not a fan of the .40 however, I do carry it from time to time as well as 9mm and my forever desired. 357sig. As far as the .40 being a "dead" cartridge I would say definitely not... Just because the FBI changed directions means nothing they just found a way to save money!
Load up what you are comfortable with, be proficient with what you shoot the best.
Be safe and live with your head on a swivel

 

[bushmaster1313]

A day at the pistol range almost always includes the below Sig P226 in .40 S&W.
On the other hand, if I had it to do over I would have gotten a 9mm to save on ammo.

 

[muddocktor]

The 40 S&W isn't anything I am personally interested in. I already reload 9 MM, 45 Auto and 357 Mag and the pistols I already own pretty much cover the use of anything you would use a 40 for. But I also don't think it's a dead round either, in that there are still quite a few folks out there that like the round and the pistols that run it. It's just not something I am interested in at my stage of life.

 

[dkelly27]

If the 40 S&W is dead then that just leaves more ammo for me. I have 2 and I love them. If you don't like them don't shoot them. I use one of mine every time I go to the range. I also take my 45 Shield and my 9mm Kahr.

 

[mckenney99]

I was in law enforcement for over 26 years during the great firearms-caliber transition period, (38/357 to 9mm to 40 s&w). A lot of law enforcement agencies switched over to the 9mm due to a perceived needed increase in "fire power". However many agencies found that the available HP 9mm ammo lacked sufficient retained mass after penetrating barriers to be "lethal". Thus one of the reasons for the switch over to the larger/heavier 40 S&W rounds but still retaining decent ammo capacity. Now with the aggressive development of 9mm bullets due to the popularity of the round for civilian CCW we now have "premium" bullets that retain sufficient mass after penetrating barriers. However, as Law Enforcement agencies blindly follow the FBI in switching back to the 9mm, that switch is predicated on using the newest/latest premium 9mm ammo and that is going to be expensive for agencies. Unfortunately, my fear is, some agencies that make the switch will then "Low Bid" their ammo and they will find themselves back where they were in the 1990's. One of the real reasons that agencies are switching is due to the fact they are having problems getting personnel to qualify during basic training and then during annual qualifications. This is an attempt to fix a training issue with an equipment change. Lets face it, many of todays law enforcement personnel are not shooters and the only time they fire their weapons are when they are required to qualify. They WILL NOT shoot on their own to maintain any proficiency. Also do not discount that there is also the nudge by the gun and ammunition manufacturers to convince agencies to buy new guns and ammo in a depressed market, that is good for their bottom line.

 

[HamHands]

Another thing the .40cal has going for it is that it has that natural flat meplate design into it's basic ball form of ammo... Of which is much more devastating than any round nose/tip which just nudges and slides it's way thru tissue like our beloved ball 9mm, .38Spec, and .45acp does... That flat point meplate acts as a crush medium against flesh and bone much more than any round nose projectile can/will/does...

 

[Trooper224]

My agency recently made the switch to 9mm. So did sister agencies in the two states to our south. I wouldn't classify the .40 as dead, but its use nation wide is definitely on the decline.

 

[bmcgilvray]

It's the 9mm that ought to be on its last legs.

Talkin' about a ho-hum, overrated cartridge, the 9mm is it. And, all the trick bullets in the world won't make the 9mm into something superior.

 

[Forrest r]

I hope the s&w40 isn't dead, I'll have to start buying jackets for my home swaged bullets again. Free brass/free lead ='s free bullets.

Keep shooting those 40cal's so I can keep shoot the 44cal's & 45cal's. Seeing how the 9mm keeps coming up in this thread might as well be politically correct and give the 9mm equal billing.

FWIW:
The easiest bullet to make/home swage from range brass is turning 9mm brass into 40s&w bullets. Long live the 9mm so everyone can have free bullets for the 40s&w's.

 

[Trooper224]

However....
Hasn't that same improvement bolstered 40S&W's and even to some degree 45Auto's terminal effectiveness too?
I believe the answer is also, yes.

You're mistaken. For that to be true all three rounds would have needed to start at the same place and proceed through a linear development to arrive at the same place. This is not the case and you're practicing false equivalency. It's basic science, something I know most who engage in caliber debates have no real interest in.

Choose whichever service caliber you want, at this point they're all good. But don't think a few millimeters in bore size will save your *** or make your mojo stronger, because you'll be in for disappointment.