Is S&W working on a solution?

modraker

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Almost everyone agrees that the M&P is a pretty good pistol. One of the most annoying problems that owners experience is brass ejecting straight back at them when shooting FMJ 9mm 115gr factory ammo. While many will say that this has never happened to them, some will agree that this is an ongoing issue. Does S&W have a plan to fix this? Do they even acknowledge that it is a problem?

Glock acted quickly on an identical problem by putting in different recoil springs in their 9mm and 40SW Gen4 pistols. S&W continues to use the same 16lb recoil spring for both calibers in their M&P line.
 
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My 4.25" M&P 9mm Pro would eject straight back when shot by some wimp new shooters, but never with me. I put the 15# ISMI recoil spring (from Brownells) and small grip on that particular gun, and it now works normally even with a wimp grip and wimp ammo.

Still works fine as always with me. Might try the lighter ISMI 15# spring.

In the current .40 M&Ps, I believe you will find the 18# spring.
 
Why not look on the Wolff Springs website to see if they have a stronger spring?

Actually a weaker spring is needed for the weaker ammo. The aftermarket recoil spring solution works for the FS M&P's but it is unavailable for the Compacts.
 
I've been told that S&W periodically buys representative samplings of the major American ammo company products to shoot in their guns. Last I heard, each M&P is fired for function with 15 rounds of factory ammo, using 3 test mags (not the ones boxed with the guns) loaded with 5 rounds each.

If an owner uses a less than satisfactory grip technique (including "breaking" their wrist and not locking it behind the shooting hand), or uses budget ammo that might run a lot lower in power when it comes to normal power levels, it's not surprising they may not experience consistent ejection patterns or weakened ejection.

Glock's Gen4 guns were pretty much initially sprung around the .40, and they realized they finally needed to use different recoil springs for the lighter recoiling 9's. They also ended up revising their ejectors in the Gen4 guns (and, FWIW, in the Gen4 .357 guns they further revised the ejector tip angle compared to the previous generation of .357 ejectors).

S&W engineers have been doing with their M&P pistols what they did with their 3rd gen guns (and are still doing in occasional LE runs of 3rd gen's), which is to constantly look for ways to revise and make subtle improvements in design and manufacturing. They've changed quite a bit since their release in '06.

Think of the factors influencing the functioning of the gun as being ... the gun (of course); the shooter (grip technique & experience); the ammo selected (power, QC, etc); the maintenance practices used; and the environmental conditions in which everything is actually used. Once the gun leaves the factory, they have no control over the shooter, ammo, maintenance practices or the conditions in which the gun is used.

Now, picture all these influenced as being a large Venn Diagram, and start imagining all the myriad ways these disparate influences can be shifted to overlap and be present in varying degrees.

Sometimes you get what you pay for, and this includes using really low cost ammo. ;)
 
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I think no matter what spring S&W puts in there auto's, some shooters will have a problem with brass coming back at them.

That is mainly because everyone has their own grip and shooting technique, and the difference in power/recoil/bullet weight of the ammo being shot.

Answer to the problem of the brass hitting them is to adjust their grip, or change to a different spring, or try different ammo.

Added: Fastbolt-didn't mean to step on your post. I was writting while you were posting. I agree with all you said.
 
I have seen new gen 4 glock 34 do the same- eject to the forehead.

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Actually a weaker spring is needed for the weaker ammo. The aftermarket recoil spring solution works for the FS M&P's but it is unavailable for the Compacts.

The 115 gr. FMJ ammo is not necessarily "weaker." Federal, Remington and Winchester 115 FMJ typically runs at about 1160-1170 fps average out of my M&P9c. I've chronoed one lot of WWB at 1227.

Last weekend I observed a guy get hit on the forehead by a .357 Sig case out of a Glock. Nothing weak there.

It happens.
 
The 115 gr. FMJ ammo is not necessarily "weaker." Federal, Remington and Winchester 115 FMJ typically runs at about 1160-1170 fps average out of my M&P9c. I've chronoed one lot of WWB at 1227.

Last weekend I observed a guy get hit on the forehead by a .357 Sig case out of a Glock. Nothing weak there.

It happens.

I meant weaker than a 9mm 124 gr through 40SW 180 gr of the same manufacturer's product line. As for getting hit by empty brass, I suppose I've been pretty lucky that my S&W SD, S&W Shield, Glock 19 and Sig Sauer P229 have never once thrown empty brass back at me. My S&W M&P 9c has never failed to eject brass back at me when using 115 gr FMJ of any brand.
 
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Admitted mp newbie here with several hundred rounds now thru my 9c, but I am surprised there could be an issue with the guns themselves. I've probably used half dozen different 115 fmj brands all with zero issues and that seems to be the case for many other owners. I could see an occasional gun slipping out with a poor component inside but as many of these models that are out there one would think if the issue was mechanical it would be more wide spread.
Again only thinking out loud, learning as I go here
 
Admitted mp newbie here with several hundred rounds now thru my 9c, but I am surprised there could be an issue with the guns themselves. I've probably used half dozen different 115 fmj brands all with zero issues and that seems to be the case for many other owners. I could see an occasional gun slipping out with a poor component inside but as many of these models that are out there one would think if the issue was mechanical it would be more wide spread.
Again only thinking out loud, learning as I go here

Your point is well taken, Ranger17. I know I'm but one of a few unlucky 9c owners. Here is a YouTube video of another unlucky guy: M&P9c ejection problems - YouTube
 
Have you tried letting someone else shoot your pistol and see if they have the same problem. There was a guy at my range complaining about getting hit in the head and face all the time with his Shield, I put 2 mags through it and none of the cases came even close. He looked at me like I was an alien. Still contended that it was the pistol after I didn't have any problem with it. Before you condemn the pistol (and S&W) have someone else who has a lot of time on striker fired pistols shoot it.
 
Have you tried letting someone else shoot your pistol and see if they have the same problem. There was a guy at my range complaining about getting hit in the head and face all the time with his Shield, I put 2 mags through it and none of the cases came even close. He looked at me like I was an alien. Still contended that it was the pistol after I didn't have any problem with it. Before you condemn the pistol (and S&W) have someone else who has a lot of time on striker fired pistols shoot it.

Yes, my son and two sons-in-law have all shot it with identical results. I cured my M&P FS with a 14lb recoil spring and guide rod from Wolff. Unfortunately, I haven't found anyone who manufactures reduced force recoil springs for the M&P Compacts.
 
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On my 5" Pro in 9mm I get weak ejection. It always ejects, but the brass either hits my right arm, sometimes my face, or sometimes it clears my right arm. Watching videos of various people shooting it (same goes for my husbands 5" Pro in 9mm) the brass just goes dink. Mostly up a little bit and then straight down. I watched another guy at the club shoot his 5" Pro in 40 and his brass was ejecting nicely. I was thinking I needed an Apex extractor, but to you think it is actually the recoil spring?
 
On my 5" Pro in 9mm I get weak ejection. It always ejects, but the brass either hits my right arm, sometimes my face, or sometimes it clears my right arm. Watching videos of various people shooting it (same goes for my husbands 5" Pro in 9mm) the brass just goes dink. Mostly up a little bit and then straight down. I watched another guy at the club shoot his 5" Pro in 40 and his brass was ejecting nicely. I was thinking I needed an Apex extractor, but to you think it is actually the recoil spring?

I have long contended that the 16 lb recoil spring in the M&Ps is too strong for 9mm FMJ 115 gr and 124 gr ammo. It works well with 147 gr and +P ammo.

The Apex Tactical extractor is well designed and can only improve the quality of brass extraction and ejection.
 
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I have a full size 9 ejecting right back at my face. Cust Svc said try filing down the extractor. Taking the sharp edges off. Shoot it and maybe file some more if needed. I have done so but not been to the range yet which I hope to this week.

Other than that try firing about 1000 rounds till it removes the sharp edges or, send just it back.

I will let you know if it has improved.
 
I have a full size 9 ejecting right back at my face. Cust Svc said try filing down the extractor. Taking the sharp edges off. Shoot it and maybe file some more if needed. I have done so but not been to the range yet which I hope to this week.

Other than that try firing about 1000 rounds till it removes the sharp edges or, send just it back.

I will let you know if it has improved.

I wish you luck in your endeavor. I had well over a thousand rounds in my FS before I put in the Apex Extractor. It improved the ejection but the brass still contacted my right shoulder. It wasn't until I installed a reduced power recoil spring that the brass ejected to my satisfaction.
 
you are holding it wrong. hold it sideways and problem solved. Once you get that down pat try snapping the gun forward as it fires.It does something to the bullet that lets you shoot around corners. I've seen them do it in the movies.
 
My girlfriend had this happen to her from my Baby Eagle .45. Brass landed on the arm of her safety glasses and burned her temple pretty good. Never happened with any of our other pistols, including both Shields, so I adjusted her grip and all was well. I think it was just her not used to the bigger framed gun. She shot my 10mm 1911, but that thing shoots brass about 15 feet so it wouldn't have happened anyway.


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