On another forum I read where a guy in Minnesota got over a year of prison time for private gun sales. The guy had sold 41 guns in a two year period and the ATF warned him he needed to get a dealers license if he was going to continue selling that many guns. It stated he was buying guns and flipping them for a profit. He kept a gun an average of 9 days and made an average profit of $90 per gun and he continued to sell guns at a high level after he was warned. Anyone heard anything else about this stuff, I've sold quite a few guns this year but not near that many?
Is the ATF cracking down on private gun sales?
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Arik
Member
I have not heard of this instance BUT the ATF did say they would be cracking down on private sales. They didn't specify anything else excel say there is no set amount of sales. It can be as little as one gun or as many as ....
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It may be like vehicles...if you sell so many within a given time frame you have to have a dealers license.....firearms may be the same way. ?????
It's all about the license fee's !!!!!!!!!!!! Follow the money !!!!!!
shouldazagged
Absent Comrade
How did the ATF know, or is that a hopelessly naive question?
ChattanoogaPhil
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The entire FFL system is a violation of the Constitution and needs to be done away with.
That's the $64,000 question. I'm very curious about that too.
OP
I heard one or more of the guns was used in a crime.
It becomes quite evident that one is in the business of selling firearms and not simply trading and upgrading one's collection with that kind of volume, and the fact that the firearms are not sitting in one's collection for any real period of time. I'm nearly rabid about gun rights but understand regulating dealers. It protects our LGS as well as being in our best interest in the long run.
rburg
Member
I think the ugly part comes when someone buys and sells the same gun. You can even do that if you've got a really good excuse, like you just bought a better one that turned up. Its making a practice or business of it that requires a license.
Many of us have "sold down" our collections over the years. Nothing wrong with that at all. Even the stinkin' libs don't mind if you sell off all your guns.
When I sell a gun, I don't deposit the money. Too hard to get it back out of the bank and past the wife.
Many of us have "sold down" our collections over the years. Nothing wrong with that at all. Even the stinkin' libs don't mind if you sell off all your guns.
When I sell a gun, I don't deposit the money. Too hard to get it back out of the bank and past the wife.
The person in the OP was flaunting that he was a dealer without a license.
and was warned , what a dumb ***. It is perfectly legal to sell to make money to put back into your collection ,But not for pure profit. We had ATF set up a table at the local gun show and politely answer any and all questions and pass out copies of the rulings on selling and trading.
Look up the ATF site and it is clearly posted as to what is legal. They are not BAD guys they are following their rules set forth by the ATF heads and the government rulers.
And you know what happens if you don't follow the rules ,even on this forum
and was warned , what a dumb ***. It is perfectly legal to sell to make money to put back into your collection ,But not for pure profit. We had ATF set up a table at the local gun show and politely answer any and all questions and pass out copies of the rulings on selling and trading.
Look up the ATF site and it is clearly posted as to what is legal. They are not BAD guys they are following their rules set forth by the ATF heads and the government rulers.
And you know what happens if you don't follow the rules ,even on this forum
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Here is a link to the story
St. Paul man sold guns linked to 4 crimes, feds say - New Wave Communications
St. Paul man sold guns linked to 4 crimes, feds say - New Wave Communications
It is the "undefined" definition of what constitutes a "business"
One gun a month, two? How many a year? Did you just buy it to sell? Who the heck knows.??
I know people that have been flipping guns for years. Buy them at a pawn shop, take to a show and sell them,
The ATF says your in business when "they say you are in business" I guess.
From the article the ATF agent stated:
"Though no "magic number" of sales qualifies a seller as a dealer, Modezelewski said, the recurrence and profitability of those sales must be considered................."
One gun a month, two? How many a year? Did you just buy it to sell? Who the heck knows.?? I know people that have been flipping guns for years. Buy them at a pawn shop, take to a show and sell them,
The ATF says your in business when "they say you are in business" I guess.
From the article the ATF agent stated:
"Though no "magic number" of sales qualifies a seller as a dealer, Modezelewski said, the recurrence and profitability of those sales must be considered................."
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cmort666
Member
You're not SUPPOSED to know.It is the "undefined" definition of what constitutes a "business"
I know people that have been flipping guns for years. Buy them at a pawn shop, take to a show and sell them,
The ATF says your in business when "they say you are in business" I guess.
From the article the ATF agent stated:
"Though no "magic number" of sales qualifies a seller as a dealer, Modezelewski said, the recurrence and profitability of those sales must be considered................."
Years ago, even the left wing "Cleveland Scene" thought that was corrupt.
the ringo kid
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Sounds to me like Feldman was mighty hard-headed and decided to risk getting in trouble.
crsides
US Veteran, SWCA Member, Absent Comrade
Hillsville Va labor day flea mkt/ gunshow saw the ATF everywhere. It has been the norm for 50yrs for folks to bring their gun, walk around and sell to who ever wants to pay up. There is also a gunshow inside the VFW bldg, and about 30 -40 other vendors set up on what has become known as Gun Alley. The ATF was requested to "educate" the out of state sellers that you must be a resident of Va to buy or sale a gun. Or you had to go thru a Va dealer just like an internet sale. Hillsville is about 10 miles inside the NC/Va line and many, if not most, of the those coming for gun purchases/sales are from NC, with many others from Tenn and W Va. It was rumored by most there that a local gunshop owner called the ATF in to reduce the competition, who knows?
But they were there in force, with an operations center set up at the gunshow. Agents visited every table explaining what could and could not be done on Fri and Sat. Many outside dealers left Fri morning, and most were gone by Sat evening. Alot of pissed off people on both sides of the table. One guy was arrested for continuing to sale after being warned.
Charlie
But they were there in force, with an operations center set up at the gunshow. Agents visited every table explaining what could and could not be done on Fri and Sat. Many outside dealers left Fri morning, and most were gone by Sat evening. Alot of pissed off people on both sides of the table. One guy was arrested for continuing to sale after being warned.
Charlie
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Absalom
SWCA Member, Absent Comrade
Actually, that's putting it politely. I'm surprised the Feds even bothered to give him a warning before nailing him. Dimwits like like this are the poster children for the "loophole" crowd.
the ringo kid
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Which is why I dared not say more, I could have earned another unpaid vacation.
deadin
US Veteran
I had a friend that got busted for the very same thing. His problem was that he advertised "Guns for Sale/Wanted" in the local Little Nickel. He kept immaculate records showing profits. He would take returns if the buyer decided he didn't like the gun. His "collection" was whatever he had in stock at the time. They were all for sale.
They finally set him up on a strawman sale and busted him.
This was about 40 years ago, so it's nothing new. If you want to act like a dealer, get a license.......
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