Is the M&P 15-22 a good first gun?

[Majorlk]

I couldn't let you be the only pessimist in the forum

I like to think I am an educated and informed realist.

I like to look at things as they really are, not how I would like them to be. Using a 15-22 as a home defense firearm makes no more sense than a Ruger SR22 or Walther P22 as a carry piece.

My home firearm is a 12-gauge and I carry a .40S&W.

 

[DelFuego]

"Mr. Doe, please tell the jury why you felt the need to repeatedly shoot my client 25 times with an assault rifle." "It's not an assault rifle." "really? Well, it certainly looks like one, and answer the question please."

Don't forget that even if you are cleared of any criminal charges in defending yourself, family and home, you may still be slapped with a civil suit from the intruder or his/her family. Potentially huge mess. Why make it messier having to explain 25 rounds?

This is the only problem I do see with using a .22 as a home defense weapon. How would you explain having to shoot the intruder so many times? How about if I just shoot the intruder in the hand with a Desert Eagle, causing him to drop his weapon, and his hand, on the floor.

 

[w0ady]

You beat me to it.

There's an awful lot of bad information being posted by people with little or no self-defense firearms training - and if followed, could well get some poor schmuck and/or his family killed.

actually i beat you both to it if you read my post above his.

 

[PainterlyShotgroup]

Yup, you did. Haha, sorry man....

 

[Razer1]

I don't want this to become a debate on best home defense weapon - the op did state he was getting a nice shotty to handle that anyways so point is moot, but facts are, even if an intruder is armed with a hand gun and sees you holding the 15-22 he is gonna A) Try to flee while B) Making a mess in his underpants as he would not recognize it is not a full on AR-15.

 

[PainterlyShotgroup]

I don't want this to become a debate on best home defense weapon - the op did state he was getting a nice shotty to handle that anyways so point is moot, but facts are, even if an intruder is armed with a hand gun and sees you holding the 15-22 he is gonna A) Try to flee while B) Making a mess in his underpants as he would not recognize it is not a full on AR-15.

Right, if only home invasions were, A) that simple. And B) that predicable.

 

[Majorlk]

I don't want this to become a debate on best home defense weapon - the op did state he was getting a nice shotty to handle that anyways so point is moot, but facts are, even if an intruder is armed with a hand gun and sees you holding the 15-22 he is gonna A) Try to flee while B) Making a mess in his underpants as he would not recognize it is not a full on AR-15.

Depending upon that line of thinking will get you killed or your family killed. Someone high on either drugs or alcohol is seldom thinking rationally and will almost never do what you think he will. He thinks he is invincible. I'm betting you have no real experience with this kind of person.

 

[Razer1]

Mayhaps. But as the op stated, he's getting a shotty anyways as well so no need to rake him over the coals

 

[Majorlk]

Mayhaps. But as the op stated, he's getting a shotty anyways as well so no need to rake him over the coals

No one was raking him over the coals. What several of us are doing is poking holes in ignorant and ill informed statements by folks who don't know what they are talking about.

 

[w0ady]

we are simply stating that .22 is not the ideal defense round. the last thing i would want is for someone to get hurt because they read on some forums that it was. there are plenty of better options out there and the OP is smart by selecting a shotgun for defense since he is not old enough to purchase handguns. to me, defense is first priority over fun when purchasing a firearm. now that he has that out of the way, then hell yea i think he should get a 15-22.

 

[hkyplr]

Sorry I gotta make a comment here. On EVERY firearm related forum I am on, there is always legal rhetoric that just blows me away. "If you use reloads, you are gonna get chewed up in court" or "If you shoot the perp too many times you are going to get chewed up in court" etc, etc, etc. these are all just wild assumptions! There have been lengthy post on many different forums that get very heated in these types of debates and what it really comes down to is the simple fact that NO ONE has been able to come up with any type of concrete evidence that proves any of these statements. People have been using firearms for home and self defense since the invention of black powder and yet not one court case to support these statements. Please make sure these are facts before posting them, there is enough mis-information out there without contributing to it.

Rant over, thanks.

 

[hkyplr]

amazes me how many people are supporting a .22 for home defense. i have 9mm's and still want to go bigger.

w0ady, I don't come to the same conclusion as you after reading the posts again. My interpretation of most people's opinion of the 15-22 as a HD weapon is, it's better than nothing, but there are much better choices out there. I don't think anyone is supporting it as a quality HD weapon.

 

[PainterlyShotgroup]

Sorry I gotta make a comment here. On EVERY firearm related forum I am on, there is always legal rhetoric that just blows me away. "If you use reloads, you are gonna get chewed up in court" or "If you shoot the perp too many times you are going to get chewed up in court" etc, etc, etc. these are all just wild assumptions! There have been lengthy post on many different forums that get very heated in these types of debates and what it really comes down to is the simple fact that NO ONE has been able to come up with any type of concrete evidence that proves any of these statements. People have been using firearms for home and self defense since the invention of black powder and yet not one court case to support these statements. Please make sure these are facts before posting them, there is enough mis-information out there without contributing to it.

Rant over, thanks.

What I have been told is that in self defense circumstances you use the minimum amount of force needed to subdue an attacker. Anything more and you are leaving yourself open to criminal or civil repercussions. Simply put, if it takes 25 rounds (of anything) to stop someone, perhaps you are using the wrong tool for the job.

 

[hkyplr]

What I have been told is that in self defense circumstances you use the minimum amount of force needed to subdue an attacker. Anything more and you are leaving yourself open to criminal or civil repercussions. Simply put, if it takes 25 rounds (of anything) to stop someone, perhaps you are using the wrong tool for the job.

I agree that anyone should use the minimum amount of force necessary to protect themselves and their loved ones, but just the simple fact of using deadly force, i.e. a firearm leaves you open to civil and criminal repercussions.
My point is there are zero previous court cases to support these claims.

 

[Majorlk]

I agree that anyone should use the minimum amount of force necessary to protect themselves and their loved ones, but just the simple fact of using deadly force, i.e. a firearm leaves you open to civil and criminal repercussions.
My point is there are zero previous court cases to support these claims.

I serious doubt you can support that assertion. Not every case makes the national news.

That said, my concern isn't so much what might happen in court, but what happens in a home when someone follows some of the stupid advice posted on forums like this one - the sight of a 15-22 looking like an M16 and making the perp flee, is just one example. Most, if not all, of the people making such statements have no self-defense firearms and tactics training at all.

 

[hkyplr]

Majorlk, I agree that no one should bet their life on trying to fool a perp, it may happen, but I wouldn't want to risk my life on it. As they say, knowledge is power, and in this instance, training is knowledge.
FWIW, I carry the same M&P 40c, have a 1911 45 sitting within easy reach in the house. I wouldn't risk my families life on a .22, but I do carry hand loads in my 40 and 45.

 

[Majorlk]

hkyplr:

Majorlk, I agree that no one should bet their life on trying to fool a perp, it may happen, but I wouldn't want to risk my life on it.

You know that and I know that, but there are people here telling uneducated (firearms and shooting-wise) shooters to do just that! Believing such "knowledge" could well get them killed. That's my gripe - people who know just enough to be dangerous to themselves and others and not smart enough to keep their ignorance to themselves.

 

[PHXSHOOTER]

If you would like some authoritative legal advice on firearms, Google Massad F. Ayoob. He is an expert witness, police officer, and self defense trainer. I read all kinds of his articles. Combat Handguns Magazine publishes an article of his every month, where he cites the legal outcomes of REAL cases. A lot of those articles are archived at tacticallife.com.....It's good stuff

 

[hkyplr]

If you would like some authoritative legal advice on firearms, Google Massad F. Ayoob. He is an expert witness, police officer, and self defense trainer. I read all kinds of his articles. Combat Handguns Magazine publishes an article of his every month, where he cites the legal outcomes of REAL cases. A lot of those articles are archived at tacticallife.com.....It's good stuff

Yes, I have heard of him. AFAIK, all of the cases he has referenced, none had to do with a justified SD shooter being convicted because he used Home Reloads or shot the perp too many times. I could be wrong, but I don't think such a case exists. JMHO.

 

[Snake Plissken]

Answering some well asked questions about personal defense by Massad Ayoob

 

[hkyplr]

Answering some well asked questions about personal defense by Massad Ayoob

Interesting read, thanks.

 

[howard236]

It's just flat out a fun rifle to shoot

 

[BP_Z28]

The 15-22 is my first firearms purchase.

I love shooting the rifle, same goes with my fiancee. Its a good learning platform for the two of us. Best $407 on a firearm.

 

[w0ady]

Answering some well asked questions about personal defense by Massad Ayoob

some good info but remember its a 6 year old article and not everything ayoob preaches is always correct.

 

[GRAYSTER]

Thanks so much. I will be buying my gun tomorrow! Can't wait!

As for accessories ill be sure to ask around.

 

[Razer1]

Do you know the exact model you will be getting?

http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/...4_750001_750051_757786_-1_757784_757784_image

That page is the modles they sell

 

[GRAYSTER]

Just got it! Yes!

 

[Desert Five-0]

Congrats. I hope yours came with a 25 round mag. Mine came with a full length 10. Buy a couple more mags and have fun.

 

[Majorlk]

Congrats. I hope yours came with a 25 round mag. Mine came with a full length 10. Buy a couple more mags and have fun.

It takes less than a minute to make it into a 25-round magazine.

Remove the floor plate, spring and follower.
Place it upside down on a hard surface.
Insert flat piece of metal (thin file) in the magazine against the stop pin.
Hit file a couple of times with a hammer - the pin will bend and drop out.
Re-assemble magazine.

 

[Desert Five-0]

I know, I am just being picky because it doesn't have the pull downs and it looks different than the others. I'd rather have a 10 round short mag. Maybe I will hack it off into a short.