Is this a pre-model 12 and, if so, where can I get side-plate screws and a sideplate?

[Whatgorilla]

I hope this is the right section--it has 3 screws, so I'm assuming it's post 1961. (ETA: oops, it's 1953--wrong section)

My dad gave this to my sister for a carry-gun (and home defense), but it seized up during her CCW class. I'm trying to work out the bugs, and have got it pulling smoothly now, but need info and a screw (and a side-plate) for it.

Here's what I know:

Smith and Wesson
Model 40 81 (?not in my 2009 blue book?).
Says "Airweight 38 Special CTG" on barrel (see pics).
Also, on the side-etched model number (not the lower one) inside the cylinder area, there's a big "K" above the model number and a small number "9" below it.
Serial Number on bottom of grip is: C 236xxx
The frame feels/seems bigger than a friend's J-frame that I held...not sure if it is a J-frame or not--I just swear it feels bigger than his carry gun, which was a J-frame.

I'm missing a screw and the sideplate bows out a bit (hardly at all, but I heard it should be seamless)...the gun seized up--it was almost impossible to pull the trigger--but I've worked the cylinder loose enough to where it's back to pulling fine now. I'm still going to open her up and clean it out--there's a good bit of gunk in there, but not enough to justify it jamming up like that (IMO). I don't want it locking on her again if she ever needs it. Any help is appreciated. Thanks in advance.

So, is this an "M&P pre-model 12" (a friend says that's his best guess, but he also thinks it's pre-1957) and how would I get parts for it?

NOTE: I've never owned a revolver, but this thing has grown on me over the last month...it points really well for such tiny grips. I'm kinda thinking about keeping it for myself and buying her something else. ;o)

PICS-->

 

[crsides]

yes, its a pre-12. the 40 81 is an assembly # and is meaningless. Check the cylinder with a magnet to see if it is aluminum. This serial # range originally had alum frame and cylinder with steel bbl. Most have been changed out to a steel cylinder, but not all of them. If cylinder is alum, would not recommend firing it.


Charlie

 

[P&R Fan]

First of all, welcome to the Forum.
That is indeed a "Pre" M12, better known as a .38 Special Airwieght Military and Police Model. All S&W revolvers were given soulless numbers in 1957, when this one became the M12. According to the Standard Catalog of Smith and Wesson it was made in 1953. The true serial number is the one on the bottom of the butt. Pay no attention to the others, they were for use in the assembly process.
I can't guide you on ideas for repairs, but I'm sure somebody will be along soon who can.
Jim

 

[Whatgorilla]

If it is aluminum, could that explain why firing modern ammo might have caused it to lock up the cylinder? (Though I THINK she was shooting wadcutters, the store may have sold her some fancy super defense ammo.)

If aluminum and it can't be shot, this won't be much of a CCW gun.
Thanks.

ETA: thanks. Glad to be here. I've been selling off the collection of a woman whose husband died. So far we've made $25K, but it's mostly Colts. The only S&W in the bunch is an old Model 1, 2nd issue, tip-up, Serial number 792310 or 7923I0, manufactured in 1865, that functions great and comes in a nice case, that I can't sell for $425 on GB. ;o) Must've been a bad year for the model 1.

 

[Whatgorilla]

UGH. So I've got a paperweight not an airweight.

The magnet stuck to the barrel, trigger, and hammer. NOT to frame or cylinder. So. I'm guessing you're implying it's dangerous to shoot this model?! My blue book said they changed from alloy to steel due to cylinders cracking.

Would weak wadcutters be okay to shoot?

If not, what can I sell it for--is it worth anything for the novelty of an aluminum cylinder?
My 2009 Blue book has it at $475 for 80%, $600 for 90%...this is probably between 80 and 90 (ones the interior is cleaned out from years of WD40 or whatever sitting in there getting gunky).

 

[toddimusnimski]

is it worth anything for the novelty of an aluminum cylinder?

For the Model 12, page 178 of the Standard Catalog of Smith and Wesson (SCSW) says "Up to double value for alloy cylinder (do not shoot)". Values given are $470 ANIB, $375 Exc, $285 VG. Those values seem a bit conservative to me.

Food for thought!

Todd

 

[Whatgorilla]

Thanks. I'll see if dad will sell it (are the values you gave the non-doubled values??) or trade it to a collector for a DA .38 of similar condition that CAN be shot. Can't have her getting hurt if she had to use it--kinda defeats the purpose.

COULD I buy another cylinder assembly and use that? I see a model 10 cylinder here for $126:
http://www.smith-wesson.com/wcsstore/SmWesson2/upload/other/RevPartsList_Retail.pdf

I'm going to order the Yoke, Plate and Endshake screws for the model 10, but evidently they won't sell sideplates...guess I'll just screw mine down with the new screws.

 

[toddimusnimski]

Yes, those were the non-doubled values. It would be nice to have a steel cylinder to shoot with and keep the alloy one to maintain the collectibility value. I'd leave it to S&W or the experts here to tell you if that's feasible. Once you get the proper screws installed it's probably best to leave them be - it's too easy to bugger them up with a non-gunsmithing screwdriver.

You may be better off buying another gun instead of putting $ into this one to make it shootable. I'd keep it in the family if possible - having it's original alloy cylinder makes it pretty appealing. Not too many can say that they have one. Beautiful gun!

Anyways, those are just my opinions. Forgot to mention last time - Welcome to the Forum!

Todd

 

[murphydog]

UGH. So I've got a paperweight not an airweight.

The magnet stuck to the barrel, trigger, and hammer. NOT to frame or cylinder. So. I'm guessing you're implying it's dangerous to shoot this model?! My blue book said they changed from alloy to steel due to cylinders cracking.

Would weak wadcutters be okay to shoot?

If not, what can I sell it for--is it worth anything for the novelty of an aluminum cylinder?
My 2009 Blue book has it at $475 for 80%, $600 for 90%...this is probably between 80 and 90 (ones the interior is cleaned out from years of WD40 or whatever sitting in there getting gunky).

Correct, you should not shoot this one, with any ammo. The alloy cylinders were brittle and could crack even with sub-standard pressure loads. Hopefully the binding and such with firing was not due to a cracked cylinder...

You could in theory swap in a steel .38 M & P/model 10 cylinder - in essence, that is what the factory did to solve the alloy cylinder problem - but given its collector value and your desire to shoot it regularly it may be better to sell this one and buy a gun you can use. A later version with a steel cylinder, a 2" model 10 or 64, a smaller J frame - plenty of alternatives.

It is difficult to judge condition from the photos, but somewhere in the 90% price range you noted sounds about right for its value, to the right collector.

 

[Art Doc]

I think the bowed side plate was caused by it not being assembled properly. There is a sliding bar that if not located correctly interferes with installation of the side plate. Some boob (sorry if this was you or your dad) ignored the difficulty he was having when putting on the side plate and with great determination and American spirit tightened down the screws anyway and bent the side plate. This also explains why it doesn't function.

Forget finding a replacement. They are not available. This can be fixed by a careful smith.

Gun is collectible, not shootable.