ISP Pre-14

[Entropy]

First, before ANYTHING, I’d like to personally and publicly thank Forum Member linde for his help. Before this revolver even came into my possession, I contacted him through this board with some questions. I am a relative new guy, with even fewer posts, but he took the time to not only get back to me with answers to my questions, but within about 16hrs to boot! Thank you Sir.

Now onto the gun.

It’s a 1957 ISP Pre-14 delivered in a batch later that year to the Illinois State Police. A few honest wear marks. Locks up solid. I only own one other S&W (a late 70s M28) but after seeing the finish on this gun, I understand what it’s all about. Except for maybe a SKB O/U skeet gun, I’ve never owned anything with such deep blueing. It’s truly remarkable, and I’m sure that even at that, there are tons of examples of finish even better.

I plan on getting it lettered, and of course signing up for the SWCA. I think I’ve found a new retirement hobby. I appreciate the wealth of information here and the cordial attitudes.

Cheers

 

[S&W ucla]

Beautiful gun!! I just don't understand why the 5" barrels weren't in more demand. That gun has the best balance to me of any K-frame. You were asking the right person "linde", be hard to find a more knowledgeable
or nicer guy! Welcome to the S&WCA too

 

[Truckman]

In three words: That is gorgeous......Ben

 

[murphydog]

Member linde is a good guy and a fount of knowledge on oddball Midwestern law enforcement .38s of the 1950s.

And you know the old saying from physics class - entropy always wins. Enjoy!

 

[Entropy]

Thanks all. Hoping to get it out the next few days and see how it does. I loaded up a bunch of 158gr SWC/4.6gr Unique loads to use. I have some factory FMJ, but worry that it will spit it out of the cylinder if I try to load it...lol

 

[rincar]

Just to fore warn you that you may become addicted to S&W collecting. Even worse is to become addicted to Gun collecting in general. If these things should happen and they will. You will spend all your waking hours. Thinking about guns and all your sleeping hours dreaming about guns. Soon your home will become littered with books and magazines about guns. You will also spend hours on Gun broker looking at guns and bidding on them. So beware of the addiction.

 

[reccpd101]

Very Nice !!!

 

[Truckman]

Just to fore warn you that you may become addicted to S&W collecting.

Addiction?...What addiction?......Ben

 

[glowe]

You are correct that there are lots of pristine K-38 6" Masterpiece revolvers out there, but hardly any police related K-38s in that condition!! First of all, it is said that there were maybe only 470 ISP guns shipped in total, so for the police revolver collector a tough one to find in any condition. Police guns were heavily used and if yours is not refinished, would represent a very few in high condition out there. Nice find!!

BTW, I always have to add that the very elegant "K-38 Masterpiece" deserves that name and not the dismissive Pre-model anything!

 

[Toyman]

Illinois State Police practicing. Note dump pouches on the side.

 

[Entropy]

We’re the Targets or the Magnas standard issue? Both?

 

[glowe]

Standard factory stocks were Magnas for the Masterpiece line, but one could order the gun from the factory with target stocks by the late 1940s. The letter will tell you if target stocks were ordered when ISP bought their guns?

 

[JP@AK]

Russ would know for sure, but I suspect the ISP ordered them with Magna stocks. I know the 5" order from the MSHP a few years earlier shipped with Magna stocks. Here's a picture of one of those:

 

[Doug M.]

The barrel in the first shot looks to me like a 6". Is that some trick being played on my eyes?

 

[Entropy]

The barrel in the first shot looks to me like a 6". Is that some trick being played on my eyes?

Nope. It’s a 5”.

 

[murphydog]

I've seen it stated before (maybe even by me ), but one of the reasons I think 5" K frames appear so appealing is symmetry. The barrel length is almost the same as the distance from the cylinder face to the back of the grip frame and it just looks balanced.

And S & W was at peak bluing skills from the mid-'50s to the early '60s, only rivaled by the mid-late '30s.

 

[H Richard]

The 5" ISP guns are still shooters.


Just like all the other K38's. All shots fired one handed Rapid Fire 10 Second strings.

 

[Entropy]

Got out between rain showers today to shoot it a bit. 15yds. Nothing spectacular, but it’s more user error than anything else. Maybe play around a bit with the loading. This was 4.7gr Unique under a Matt’s 158gr LSWC. Hopefully a smiling Trooper in Valhalla today...

 

[Capt29]

Those 5 inchers were carried in a patent leather cross draw holster. I believe the theory was that it kept the gun away from someone sitting in the front passenger seat. 12 extra rounds were carried in a similar leather dump pouch(the operative word being dump) which not infrequently would put all your spare ammo in a widely dispersed pile on the pavement/floor etc..
In 1967 when the ISP went to the M39 they used a cross holster, also in patent leather which had a magazine holder integral with the holster-kind of like the old nazi P38 holsters.
It was major administrative offense for an ISP Trooper to carry more than the specified amount of extra ammo for either weapon.
Those old 5 inch guns were beautiful, the reason the ISP did not order more was that it was very small organization back then and a Trooper could substitute his personally owned 5 inch Colt or S&W provided he qualified with it. I remember one old Trooper telling me, "its one inch closer to the target....."
I believe after the order mentioned the ISP went to a 5 inch .357 Magnum, also a S&W issue with the same personally owned option.

 

[BGM109]

Beautiful looking Smith. Extremely minor "character wear". It just has a little experience on it. Tom

 

[erich03]

That is a Beautiful gun!

First, before ANYTHING, I’d like to personally and publicly thank Forum Member linde for his help. Before this revolver even came into my possession, I contacted him through this board with some questions. I am a relative new guy, with even fewer posts, but he took the time to not only get back to me with answers to my questions, but within about 16hrs to boot! Thank you Sir.

Now onto the gun.

It’s a 1957 ISP Pre-14 delivered in a batch later that year to the Illinois State Police. A few honest wear marks. Locks up solid. I only own one other S&W (a late 70s M28) but after seeing the finish on this gun, I understand what it’s all about. Except for maybe a SKB O/U skeet gun, I’ve never owned anything with such deep blueing. It’s truly remarkable, and I’m sure that even at that, there are tons of examples of finish even better.

I plan on getting it lettered, and of course signing up for the SWCA. I think I’ve found a new retirement hobby. I appreciate the wealth of information here and the cordial attitudes.

Cheers

 

[erich03]

the snub in your picture

What is the suffix on the snub in your pic?

I own one that is a Model 10 with no suffix.

The 5" ISP guns are still shooters.


Just like all the other K38's. All shots fired one handed Rapid Fire 10 Second strings.

 

[6917sctygrp]

Hi I'm relatively new to the forum and only own one S&W but why don't they blue their guns like they used to? Is it just a cost thing? They call the black surface blue but it is a poor replacement for what used to be a beautiful finish.

 

[Walter Rego]

I have to agree with Murphydog, the 5" K frames have a wonderful symmetry. They also handle very nicely.

I have a 1956 .38 Combat Masterpiece, a 1955 K-38 Masterpiece and a 1964 Model 14-2 that was a special ordered 5" gun. The K-38 Combat Masterpiece with the 4" tapered barrel feels very differently in the hand than the K-38 Masterpiece with the Heavy 6" Barrel, and you would think the Model 14-2 with the 5" barrel feels very similar to the K-38 Masterpiece as they have the same heavy barrel profiles.

But the 5" Model 14-2 seems "just right", not too whippy and not too muzzle heavy. Maybe not as nice for slow fire bullseye shooting as the 6", but for a service weapon it seems about perfect.

 

[KalamazooKid]

I too have one of the 5” ISP revolvers and enjoy it immensely! Hope you do too!

 

[NavySCPO]

Congratulations! The finish on your 5 inch is stunning!

I have one of the 5” models, but 1) Isn’t nearly as nice as yours, 2) Was not one of the ISP Revolvers, but still 3) was shipped to Fishman’s Sporting Goods Company in Springfield, IL, go figure. Made it to the right state, but as far as I know not into the holster of a State Trooper...having said all that, you just never can be certain.

A bit odd to be sure, but a sweet revolver nonetheless.

To answer your earlier question, my letter says it shipped with Target Stocks, so they went out with both, then again, mine was not destined for the ISP.



Welcome to the Forum!

 

[Truckman]

Hi I'm relatively new to the forum and only own one S&W but why don't they blue their guns like they used to? Is it just a cost thing? They call the black surface blue but it is a poor replacement for what used to be a beautiful finish.

I agree, and the reason boils down to cost every time...Just follow the money......Ben

 

[ispcapt]

I have one of the 5” models, but 1) Isn’t nearly as nice as yours, 2) Was not one of the ISP Revolvers, but still 3) was shipped to Fishman’s Sporting Goods Company in Springfield, IL, go figure. Made it to the right state, but as far as I know not into the holster of a State Trooper...having said all that, you just never can be certain.

Yours may have very likely gone to an ISP Troop. Prior to going to the Model 39 Troops had to buy their own duty guns. They were not issued equipment. Fishman's was the usual purchase location for all police guns from all agencies in the area.

 

[Entropy]

Yours may have very likely gone to an ISP Troop. Prior to going to the Model 39 Troops had to buy their own duty guns. They were not issued equipment. Fishman's was the usual purchase location for all police guns from all agencies in the area.

Hello again!

I hope your retirement is continuing to go well. A couple more years for me...

 

[ispcapt]

Hello again!
I hope your retirement is continuing to go well. A couple more years for me...

Going very well. Highly recommend it.