Issues with new J-frame vs older ones.

[chief38]

In general, the new production S&W (after 1995 or '96) has really taken a turn for the worse - those are just the facts, not my opinion! Today, if you order a new S&W revolver and actually get a good one - run out and buy a lottery ticket! My newest one is from '95 and any purchase of a S&W revolver I have made since has been a used one. The KEY is knowing how to check it out before writing the check. There are still many lightly used, vintage S&W revolvers in excellent shape around - you just need patience and knowledge as there is no factory warranty. That does not bother me in the least because I have no faith left in their repair dept. anyway. Thankfully I have the parts, tools and skills to repair pretty much anything that could break on what I own. BTW, they rarely break! I think the last time I did a major repair on one (more than just a rear sight blade or dislodged front sight insert, spring or similar) was 16 years ago.

They seemed to have gotten down their production on semi-auto's way better than they can produce revolvers - for sure! Most of their SA's are descent. If I wanted a brand new revolver today, it would be a Colt - no thinking necessary.

 

[H Richard]

I haven't bought a J Frame since they went to the larger size.

 

[jeffrefrig]

"I would bet that a good revolver smith could fix the majority of problem guns that are currently leaving the plant in short order". From steelslaver.

Very true, in my limited experience. A while back I bought new a real nice-looking Model 27-9. It had to go back after 12 .38 Specials chipped the forcing cone. After two months, I got it back. Now, whatever S&W did to it, it wouldn't shoot or cock or do anything on 4 of 6 chambers. After about 1 1/2 months, I was down there and I asked about the gun. The gunsmith/owner had them send my gun back to him and he fixed it in 30 minutes. There are other issues with it still, but it shoots to POA and is still pretty & shiny. Maybe S&W could contract out their returns to a few real gunsmiths. Problem is they'd be the highest paid workers in the factory!
Good luck, 'burgherJon!
BTW, someone mentioned go back to the M36. They may be a slight heavier, but they conceal nice. Mine fits in a front pocket holster and it conceals well, like the 9mm in my back pocket holster.
Again, good luck. Jeff

 

[LittleCooner]

I have left the possibility of ownership of any Smith and Wesson with the Hillary Hole to other who may be happy to plunk down their hard earned money and have a smile on their face. I have actually purchased three of those Hillary Hole guns in the past 10 years. I was so happy to see them leave and hope that make someone else happy. They are from a different time and different company owner than all my other S&W revolvers. I posted my "review" and "thoughts" here on the forum of the last one I purchase and sold and dang it, I was remanded by an administrator saying I was bashing the mother factory. OK, I will say nothing bad in this post about Hillary Hole guns. PittsburgJon67- many fine old pre Hillary Hole J frame guns are out there in the used marked, I suggest you search until you find one that makes you happy. I predict your happiness will continue if you follow this advice.

 

[xfarfuldog]

Most of the replies with multiple posts prefer the older Smiths. Newer posters seem willing to give the newer guns a chance. I will stick with the "old guys" (like me) opinions. I'm happy with my no dash 36, a magnum carry and my 5 -4 or older model 66s.

 

[Ameshawki]

My 2011 638 has been fine. I haven't run thousands of rounds through because, well, it's a 638 and not all that pleasant. My J's from the 60's, 70, and 90's are also fine. My Smith collection starts in 1903 and goes to 2024. They all seem to work. Lucky I guess.

 

[Doug M.]

It is highly likely that old S&W (and other brands) had ample problems, but without the internet, hearing about them was unusual. Remember Elmer Keith commenting negatively on the .22s chambers back in the 1950s?


That said, I certainly see S&W failing to produce adequate quality far too often. Example: the new 432UC - great design, inconsistent QC. That kind of self inflicted wound is never good for a company. Look at the various cars with serious recalls in the last couple years. It is not just the firearm industry.

 

[wproct]

I'm also an older guy, as in almost 80. I've been into guns since about the age of 19. I've owned many handguns during these years, mostly Smith & Wesson and Ruger. All of my Smith & Wesson revolvers that I have owned have been older pre-lock versions except for one. It was a 686 4 inch bbl model and even though I no longer own it, it had a very nice action and trigger pull.

Through out my lifetime I have often day dreamed about how fun and exciting it would be to actually work at one of the firearms company factories. I have always envisioned that most people who do work for them were shooters and gun enthusiasts like us, and I think that by and large most of them probably were. However, I wonder if a lot of current employees aren't just regular Joe's off the street that doesn't have any special interest in guns other than it's the place they work at? I'm sorry if this has been kind of a rambling comment, but something that I wonder about.

 

[MajorD]

I have always preferred the older guns myself. I did get a tremendous deal on a newer lock equipped 442 early this year, and my only complaint is it shoots slightly left of center, probably barrel slightly over torqued.

 

[Old cop]

My newest J is a no-lock 340PD about 10 yrs old & carried daily. The trigger is a bit heavy but never a single problem in all that time.

 

[Snub Nose Sasquatch]

I am not by any means very experienced with S&W j-frame revolvers. In fact, I purchased my first j-frame, a new SW 637 with the internal lock, back in 2019. The revolver has gone through 2,500 rounds of .38 special from various ammunition companies without any problems. Since purchase, it replaced my Glock 19 as an everyday carry firearm. I trust this gun every single time I leave the house.

That said, that is just one revolver from S&W that works 100%. Loving the 637 a lot, I was excited to see the Lipsey's exclusive SW 432UC j-frame chambered in .32 H&R Magnum, a caliber that is lower recoil than .38 Special and just as/close enough good from a terminal ballistic standpoint. So I ordered the gun and it had problems before I even fired a single shot: It is currently at the Smith and Wesson mothership to be fixed.

Who knows if the Bodyguard 38 you're looking at will be a 100% trustworthy gun or a rancid choking pile of ****. The internet is full of examples of S&W, among others, not carrying about quality control.

 

[xtrtsqrt11]

My 638 is one year old. Having seen the reports of sketchy QC on this forum in particular, I carefully inspected it upon arrival to my FFL and found nothing of concern. It was purchased through GB.

In particular, I was a little leery about pictures of used 638s that showed a significant scratch to the recoil shield on used 638s from the locking point on the extractor star. I luckily have several hundred rounds through it and no scratch yet.

I have another J with the lock (340 PD), and my wife's 637 PC snubby as well as a 686+, and have never experienced a problem with any of them with the lock.

 

[hiker45acp]

Very disappointed in S&Ws new J frames. I have owned many over the years and still stick with a 70s vintage model 60 when carrying one. So, I finally broke down to buy a new one. Bought the NEW 442-UC "No lock" Ultra Carry. It is a Lipsky Distributor special. Came with XS front sight, dovetail rear sight, trigger job, VZ G10 grips etc.. a real beauty with potential. Bought it new from my regular dealer, got it home and the cylinder was jamming from opening. Something in the cylinder release latch was just not pushing the cylinder pin all the way and you had to really push hard on the cylinder to pop out. Then when it did it would fly out violently like a spring loaded cylinder. Bottom line, this was supposed to be a higher end J frame with more hands-on fine tuning. To me it was now a piece of junk at the cost of $759 of very hard-earned dollars! Brought it back to my dealer within the hour of buying it. He could not believe how bad it was and was also disgusted. Not a shot fired and its on it's way home to S&W under WARRANTY,! Guess it depends on who works on it over there as to whether I get back the same piece of junk or something that gets special attention. I already know that QC is slacking off in their department. This was supposed to be a higher end J Frame with more attention to detail....NOT. Dealer offered me full store credit if I did not want it back after repair, would like to see it work out and keep it, but won't know until I get it back and put 300 rounds through it. So, that is my experience with a new J frame.

 

[two-bit cowboy]

I have recently been eyeing up a model 49 Bodyguard to add to the stable, but my experience with the newer S&W "quality" has me a bit leery - rough non-finished forcing cone? Really? And I am also not enamored of the locking device, as are many others perhaps?

Any comments are much appreciated in helping to get this purchase right the first time!

According to the Standard Catalog of Smith & Wesson, 4th Ed., the company discontinued the Model 49 in 1997 so the model never had an internal lock, and chances of finding one with MIM parts, which started in 1996, is probably slim to none.

 

[N4KVE]

Last gun show I got a gorgeous 60 no dash from 1983. GARY

 

[PittsburghJon67]

Being from roughly the same area as you, I still see older used Js coming up for sale occasionally. Are you opposed to a used revolver?

Wouldn't know how to answer about used revolvers, never having owned one. A good one would be good, but a less than good one would keep you awake at night. I certainly don't work on my own but apparently others do with "interesting" results. IMO, firearms are like parachutes; if you really need one you need it right now and it must work 100% of the time, otherwise you very likely won't ever have the chance to need one again. After sending my S&W Centennial NIB back to S&W twice with problems, I wrote that same idea to them, because they had said that percentage-wise their firearms have a small number of problems. I also told S&W that they don't get to choose which revolvers need to be made right, anymore than people get to choose whether they will get a good one that they subsequently need in extremis. I suppose I would be nervous like the poster here that got a supposedly new revolver that the original owner had Bubba'd up, then returned to LGS as new. I appreciate you're answering, but it is diffucult to know what to trust nowadays.

 

[PittsburghJon67]

According to the Standard Catalog of Smith & Wesson, 4th Ed., the company discontinued the Model 49 in 1997 so the model never had an internal lock, and chances of finding one with MIM parts, which started in 1996, is probably slim to none.

My interest was the newer Model 38 Bodyguard S&W, thanks.

 

[Cartwright Jones]

I have been CC my J-frame S&W revolvers exactly 50 years, starting with the Model 36 Chief Special, and more recently the Centennial Model 642-2. When picked up from LGS, the Centennial had a non-finished forcing cone and >12# trigger pull, so back to S&W twice before the problems were actually resolved. During the fix I received a personal phone call from one of the S&W technicians which generated a conversation about the internals on the newer J-frames. His take (and my experience) is that the newer snubs don't have the same quality internals (perhaps MIM parts). The Centennial's trigger pull is far better now, but nowhere near the glass-like pull on my Chief Spl, but you would expect that from good honest wearing in over 50 years' time. That all being said, I have recently been eyeing up a model 49 Bodyguard to add to the stable, but my experience with the newer S&W "quality" has me a bit leery - rough non-finished forcing cone? Really? And I am also not enamored of the locking device, as are many others perhaps? I do carry the supplied key on my keychain, just in case. These revolvers are daily carry and must work 100%, 100% of the time, and as Bill Jordan said "there is no second-place winner" here. Have any others had similar experiences with the newer J-frames? My two semi-auto pistols (not S&W and in larger calibers) are great for in-house guns, but my J-frames get the nod for everyday protection since 1974, just like old friends. Any chance of getting a Bodyguard done right the first time, or are my expectations just a bit too high? Any comments are much appreciated in helping to get this purchase right the first time!

I hate to throw cold water on this party, but modern "MIM" parts are FAR superior to the old forged and machined parts. NOBODY in the business of making high quality steel is doing it the old fashioned way, and not to go cheap, but because modern "powder steels" are far superior and can be heat molded into any shape, in final dimension, and without any inherent stress points. Microtech has been making knife blades using such steels for years an I dare anyone to pretend their blades are prone to weakness, dullness, or breakage. Technology has surpassed all the "old timer" perceptions from the sintered metal days, but I guess all the "injection molded parts" bashing won't stop until this generation has finally shuffled off their mortal coil.
Due to the smallness and light construction of the alloy framed airweights they cannot be as durable as steel. It's simple metallurgy, not some conspiracy to go cheap. If you want an 11-15 ounce revolver over a 20-24 ounce model, aluminum is the proper path forward, and T-7075 aluminum is mighty strong stuff - rivaling many different steels. But the plain fact is, the little alloy J-frames weren't made to be shot to pieces, nor to be dry-fired ad-nauseum. They were made to be loaded, dropped in a pocket, and CARRIED against that one, improbable day when one MIGHT need a gun. Along comes the internet and "ignance" abounds, and suddenly, the unwashed masses want to turn the laws of physics and metallurgy upside down while pretending none of it matters. If one wants to shoot a J-frame all day, then get the STEEL version, or a STEEL version from another manufacturer. All I "need" from my various alloy J-frames is that they go bang five times in rapid succession should the day come when I need them to. In the meantime I do NOT shoot them like a steel framed gun of much larger proportions.

 

[Jerry in SC]

I had a 36-7. Wish I still did. It has a larger ft sight and rear notch; But I traded for a 3" bbl one.

I have a 60-7 I bought 25 years ago. Mine has the wider sight and improved yoke retention, plus the improved heat treat. The last (IIRC) non magnum length J frame. It has walnut stocks and a flash chromed hammer and trigger. Personally, I think it’s the best post 90’s 1 7”8” Model 60 they built. All forged and no lock.

 

[fatcat3]

Just like Go-Fund-Me has turned us into a nation of beggars Table-Top Reviews have turn us into a nation of nit pickers. Only owned three S&W revolvers. 1970's 22 mag, 1980's M60 and a new 638. All work as intended. YMMV.