J-frame advice

[supplier]

Hi, all.

I have 9mm Shield now as my first ever gun and I like it in general. 2000 rounds later, just in one month i think i had too many problems for it to be my only CCW. but i think my first priority will be a new M&P45 in January with light and laser as a HD and going to the woods gun (I'm a photographer and sometimes staying late for the sunset, etc ). But if money permit I would like to also pick a small J-frame as a BUG to M&P45 or even to the Shield. But which one? After reading many post and sticky classification i got even more confused. What i need:

1. new one with full S&W warranty
2. small, short and light (if possible) for ankle holster
3. .38 special ???? not sure on this one
4. this one i'll only draw in hand fight/wrestling situation or if the primary gun will fail
5. I thing because of #4 above i want DAO
6. low priced ($450 is the top comfortable price, but that will be not a decision making point

I thought for some time to pick up a 380 bodyguard SA, but after reading many posts here I'll try a revolver as a BUG
Thank you, all

 

[Imaposer]

I'd recommend a 638. .38 and rated for +P. You really don't want to shoot .357 in a gun this light anyway. Mine weighs just over 13 oz empty with the CT 105 grips. I picked mine up "used" for $299. New ones can be had for under $400. The 642 is another good option but I prefer the shrouded hammer that still allows for SA firing.

 

[OLDSTER]

I have a 637 and a 642. I like the 642 to carry ( because of no external hammer), and the 637 (fully exposed hammer) for the range and plinking. Both great snubbies and I'd never part with either.

 

[supplier]

I'd recommend a 638. .38 and rated for +P. You really don't want to shoot .357 in a gun this light anyway. Mine weighs just over 13 oz empty with the CT 105 grips. I picked mine up "used" for $299. New ones can be had for under $400. The 642 is another good option but I prefer the shrouded hammer that still allows for SA firing.

First of all, thank you.

Second of all, I just added that being only BUG, i would like to stick to DAO, but i might be wrong on this one !!!!

I just read bunch od comparison on 638 vs 642

Leaning toward 642. I found two versions - regular and no internal lock. could you explain me please which one do i need?

Thanks

 

[Imaposer]

Well, options are good, IMO. The 640 series is DAO. I have a 640 which is of course the SS version of the Centennial series. I've had it a number of years and I like it a lot. The 642 is the airweight version.

But, the 638 has all the benefits of the snag free shrouded hammer, but one extra option... the ability to manually cock the hammer for such times that you may find SA useful. I see no drawbacks to having additional options when available. Sure, for 99% of our defensive needs DA is the order or the day, but being able to manually cock a gun for SA fire sure is nice to have when it fits the needs.

The 638 sorta combines the features that 3482jl likes about his two different guns, all in one gun.

One example would be at the range, when sighting my CT laser grips. Much easier to be precise in SA, and it greatly simplifies and hastens the sighting process. And then there is always the possibility of one day needing the extra level of precision in the real world too, and J frames aren't the easiest guns with which to be precise with. Especially in DAO mode. I'd recommend you take a look at and handle each. Then decide whether or not you like adding extra options at no cost.

 

[snubbiefan]

Then you're looking at a 640 no-dash (pre-lock in 38-special) or a 442/642 in the recent models. Even-though Smith will usually fix any gun you send them as if you had a warranty (short of finish or obvious abuse) to rightfully have the warranty you will have to purchase it new as the original owner.

I need to add/mention that you want DA only, but the shrouded hammer guns (649 and recent descendent's) give you a spur-hammer that will not snag, yet still carries great in your pocket.

Without trying to start another caliber argument, don't rule out the Airlite 22's. You said this was to be a bug/back-up and these things weigh-in at around 10-ounces. 8-shots of 22 Stinger or HV fragmentation ammo isn't a bad idea for a bug.

 

[tarheelbball]

$390 delivered -- no lock 442
Revolvers From Brand Name Manufacturers @ sportsmansoutdoorsuperstore.com

 

[snubbiefan]

That's likely about the best deal you will get. GET IT NOW while you can.

 

[Imaposer]

Yep, SOSS consistently the best prices that I've found, when they actually have them in stock. I was all set to order a 638 from them when I found my perfect "used" one in a lgs for $299.

The 642, lock and no lock versions, and the 638 can be had for the same price: $389.99, shipped. Of course you'll still have to pay your transferring dealer the FFL fee. Mine charges $25.

In the airweight centennials I'd recommend the 642 over the 442. There are many reports of people having rust issues with the carbon steel cylinder, barrels, and cylinder releases of the 442. The 642 and 638 use SS for these components, so they are really much more suited for concealment without worry, IMO.

 

[wrangler5]

Well, options are good, IMO. The 640 series is DAO. I have a 640 which is of course the SS version of the Centennial series. I've had it a number of years and I like it a lot. The 642 is the airweight version.

But, the 638 has all the benefits of the snag free shrouded hammer, but one extra option... the ability to manually cock the hammer for such times that you may find SA useful. I see no drawbacks to having additional options when available. Sure, for 99% of our defensive needs DA is the order or the day, but being able to manually cock a gun for SA fire sure is nice to have when it fits the needs.

The 638 sorta combines the features that 3482jl likes about his two different guns, all in one gun.

One example would be at the range, when sighting my CT laser grips. Much easier to be precise in SA, and it greatly simplifies and hastens the sighting process. And then there is always the possibility of one day needing the extra level of precision in the real world too, and J frames aren't the easiest guns with which to be precise with. Especially in DAO mode. I'd recommend you take a look at and handle each. Then decide whether or not you like adding extra options at no cost.

+1 on this whole analysis. I've carried a no-lock 442, but much prefer to have the single action option of the 638, even though it comes with a lock. (The dreaded unintended-lockup of the S&W internal lock seems to be limited to the high recoil situations of the 44 Mags and lightweight J-frames shooting magnum rounds - and it's fairly simple to remove the lock if it becomes a psychological burden.) I use standard pressure 38 Specials (Hornady jacketed or Buffalo Bore lead HP) and a CT 405 laser grip.

The ability to make a high-precision shot is one I would rather have (than not.) J frames are just as inherently accurate as their larger brothers, but quite difficult to aim precisely with their standard iron sights. With a laser grip it is possible to make extremely precise shots that I would never have the nerve to try with iron sights. Apart from adrenalin pressure, etc., I would have very high confidence of making an eyeball shot at 5-7 yards if I had a laser and a single action letoff, with the added benefit of not having to have the gun at eye level to make the shot. I would be less confident with a DAO model gun. And while you could certainly train yourself to as high a level of double action confidence as you wanted, I just think precision is easier with a single action option.

As Imaposer says, the likelihood of need may be very small (as is the likelihood of needing a gun at all) but given the choice, I'd pick the gun that gives you the extra choice.

 

[Hapworth]

At your price point? 442 Moon Clip, no contest for me -- and I've handled many iterations of the J-frame.

442 Moon Clip has no lock, is DAO, and is factory cut for moon clips (which you can shoot with or without) for the fastest ejection and reloads you'll get in a revolver.

I honestly think it's the best defense concealed carry revolver set-up going.

Except for...

...the 640 Pro: all of the above but all steel for better recoil absorption and three-dot night sights for improved targeting -- but you add a couple hundred to the cost.

 

[Imaposer]

...the 640 Pro: all of the above but all steel for better recoil absorption and three-dot night sights for improved targeting -- but you add a couple hundred to the cost.

and a few ounces of weight, which may or may not bother you, depending on your mode of carry. Personally I generally either carry my J frames IWB at 4 o'clock, or when I need deeper concealment, in a Smart Carry. While my 638 is lighter, I really don't notice much difference between it and my 640 while carrying. And I carry all day, everyday. I can tell the difference while shooting them though! And, if I were to carry in a pocket, on my ankle, or some other ways perhaps, I'm pretty sure I'd opt for the lighter weight option.

 

[Old cop]

My EDC is an older no-lock 442. These can be had in your price range and I'd order one without the internal lock.

 

[Imaposer]

The lock issue is a personal decision. First understand that is is a storage device and not a safety device. Personally I have no need for them, and would prefer my guns without. There are reports of them inadvertently engaging during firing and locking the gun. Not something I would want to risk on a SD gun. What are the odds of that happening. IDK. Most reports I've read of have involved the super light guns combined with heavy loads., but I suppose the potential is there with them all, to some degree of another.

BUT, if you have children you must make sure to secure your gun in some meaningful way to prevent them from "playing" with it. While I believe in teaching children to respect and understand the dangers of guns, and all that goes along with responsible gun ownership and handling, you can't count on your admonishments to be enough. I don't have young children in or around my home, so it isn't a worry for me. But, if you do... There are many other methods of securing a weapon that doesn't involve having an IL. If I needed such a thing I would find a good solution that works and forego the lock. If you are in that situation and aren't going to go that extra step, then by all mean, get a gun with an IL and USE it.

 

[supplier]

Is the BG38 worth considering? it comes with laser at the same price that 642?

 

[pineappleshooter]

The laser on the bodyguard is next to useless. Go with Crimson Trace grips on the J you select. The Crimson Trace grip button is on the front of the grip under your middle finger when you grip the pistol - comes on automatically when you draw.

 

[hardknocks]

shield problems

Hi, all.

I have 9mm Shield now as my first ever gun and I like it in general. 2000 rounds later, just in one month i think i had too many problems for it to be my only CCW. but i think my first priority will be a new M&P45 in January with light and laser as a HD and going to the woods gun (I'm a photographer and sometimes staying late for the sunset, etc ). But if money permit I would like to also pick a small J-frame as a BUG to M&P45 or even to the Shield. But which one? After reading many post and sticky classification i got even more confused. What i need:

1. new one with full S&W warranty
2. small, short and light (if possible) for ankle holster
3. .38 special ???? not sure on this one
4. this one i'll only draw in hand fight/wrestling situation or if the primary gun will fail
5. I thing because of #4 above i want DAO
6. low priced ($450 is the top comfortable price, but that will be not a decision making point

I thought for some time to pick up a 380 bodyguard SA, but after reading many posts here I'll try a revolver as a BUG
Thank you, all

hello is the shield jamming up?
just wondering.
did you send it back yet?
thanks
Mike

 

[Hapworth]

Is the BG38 worth considering? it comes with laser at the same price that 642?

Run a search here for reviews -- the BG38 has a mixed record.

Personally, I would say no. The 642 and 442 are well-proven and the BG38 isn't yet and might not ever be. The laser isn't a selling point for me because I don't think it's useful in a self-defense situation where reflex and point shooting will likely rule.

And I know I go on about the moon clips, but seriously, they're great.

 

[supplier]

hello is the shield jamming up?
just wondering.
did you send it back yet?
thanks
Mike

Mike,

So far I just practiced with different ammo and did not try to check on problems with Shield somehow in orderly manner (systematically). I do estimate I put around 1500 rounds through the Shield in less than 1 month (considering it was at S&W for almost a week, I would say I had 6-7 sessions in three weeks, from 150 to 300 on average, but on my first day I shoot around 500 rounds and not sure it this is consider an abuse of the gun.

TO ANSWER YOUR QUESTION:
I got 1000 rounds of Aguila 124gr FMJ and 500 Winchester NATO 124 gr FMJ

I also have the following JHP 100 rounds of each of the following ammo just to try and see what I will stick with in the future:
Winchester Ranger-T 124 +P (No problems after 40 rounds)
Hornady Critical Duty 135 P (several FTE, when empty case does not let the slide to go forward)
Hornady Critical Duty 135 +P (did not try yet)
And the following Federal HST:
124 p, (had no problems after 100 rounds)
124 +P, 147 P, 147+p (did not try yet any of these)

I also practiced with WWB 115gr P, sold at the range (no problems after 250-300 rounds)

I believe I had problems only with Hopnady 135 P and Aguila 124gr. The gun was serviced by S&W, barrel was polished and they replaced the extractor. But I still have problems with Hornady Super Duty FTE, so Hornady is not recommended for Shield.

With Aguila, I have several problems like FTE, before and after the service. One time I had "underpowered" shot, making just a small pop and fail to recycle the slide, but quite often I have the problem when slide does not stay opened after last round. I would estimate every 10th magazine did not stay opened on the last round, maybe even more often. I noticed that problem only after gun came back from service. (!?!?!?!?)

When I'm practicing point shooting I load all my mag to full capacity, but most of the time I load only 3 rounds in each mag and shoot from a holster, double/triple taps and swapping magazines to develop muscle memory.

I have 250 NATO rounds left. I might even go back to range tomorrow. I will use them all at once and see if I have any of the problem with FTE or open slide.

 

[Old Griz]

Another vote here for the 638. I like the option of firing SA. If it's in my pocket and I see someone coming towards me in a parking lot at night (or day), I like the ability of cocking the gun while it's in my pocket and being ready for a quick and easy first shot. If it proves to be no threat, it's simple to decock.

As for the internal lock, if you don't want it, take it out and put in the Plug. If you don't want to go that far, simply remove the flag.