A retired trainer in my state carries dual 640 J-frames. One for easy access to either hand, at 4 and 8 o'clock, IIRC. That would be a lot heavier with normal large -frames.
J Frame Carry-What am I missing?
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smoothshooter
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A K frame is a lot bigger all-around than a J frame is. Much harder for most people to carry IWB.
I’m 6’ 2”, 200 lbs and in addition to a wallet, keys, pocket knife & cell phone all I have is a 340PD & a speedstrip.
mike campbell
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I hope I never need it.
It has sent well over 4,000 rounds downrange and spent more than 50,000 hours on my hip. I don't like pants pocket carry but occasional jacket/vest pocket is good. I like to know exactly where it is. Even so, there are too many times I realize it's not there. If I ever need it, I hope it's there. If I need it, and it is there, 5 will have to be enough.
I don't practice fast drawing, drawing from concealment or speed reloading . I practice having a gun whenever possible. And I practice (a lot) putting 5 rounds into a 4" circle at 30 feet in < 5 seconds. I'm not fast. But after a 50-round practice session with 38 spls I can guarantee the next 5 .357 magnums will go into that same circle.
It has sent well over 4,000 rounds downrange and spent more than 50,000 hours on my hip. I don't like pants pocket carry but occasional jacket/vest pocket is good. I like to know exactly where it is. Even so, there are too many times I realize it's not there. If I ever need it, I hope it's there. If I need it, and it is there, 5 will have to be enough.
I don't practice fast drawing, drawing from concealment or speed reloading . I practice having a gun whenever possible. And I practice (a lot) putting 5 rounds into a 4" circle at 30 feet in < 5 seconds. I'm not fast. But after a 50-round practice session with 38 spls I can guarantee the next 5 .357 magnums will go into that same circle.
X's 10........carry my 642 in a thin UM's nylon holster........Sometimes forgetting it in my right front pocket.
Model 15-4ever
Member
Back in the day I pocket carried the J frame. With the advent of lightweight, reliable and flat pocket .380 pistols, I use one of those now. The J frame is just too bulky for modern casual clothing, and also weighs more than a .380 or .32.
I still carry a J frame, however. It's about the only handgun I use front appendix carry for, in a Lobo Leather IWB. I like the offset belt clip, makes the revolver carry less bulgy.
I still carry a J frame, however. It's about the only handgun I use front appendix carry for, in a Lobo Leather IWB. I like the offset belt clip, makes the revolver carry less bulgy.
If weight is the primary consideration, then why not a Ruger LCP?
It is only around 9.5 oz. empty and has a 6+1 capacity (2 more rounds than a 38 special J-frame). Fully loaded with 7 rounds it is still under 10 oz., and it is way slimmer and flatter for pocket carry than any J-frame.
I know it is "only" a .380, but modern .380 SD ammo rivals 38 special, and you get two more rounds - three if you add a magguts kit to the magazine (increasing it to a capacity of 7+1).
I have a P3AT in my CCW rotation, which is basically the same gun as the original LCP (Ruger pretty much copied Kel-Tec's design). I have the magguts kit AND a 1+ finger-extension baseplate for the magazine. So I actually carry 8+1 in the gun and 8 more in a backup magazine in my off-hand pocket.
I carry it WAY more than any of my J-frames (I own a half dozen or so). Lighter, and 9 rounds vs 5, in a package that is about 1/3 slimmer and lighter - and I shoot it just as well.
Works for me, but YMMV...
Last edited:
smoothshooter
Member
I hope I never need it.
It has sent well over 4,000 rounds downrange and spent more than 50,000 hours on my hip. I don't like pants pocket carry but occasional jacket/vest pocket is good. I like to know exactly where it is. Even so, there are too many times I realize it's not there. If I ever need it, I hope it's there. If I need it, and it is there, 5 will have to be enough.
I don't practice fast drawing, drawing from concealment or speed reloading . I practice having a gun whenever possible. And I practice (a lot) putting 5 rounds into a 4" circle at 30 feet in < 5 seconds. I'm not fast. But after a 50-round practice session with 38 spls I can guarantee the next 5 .357 magnums will go into that same circle.
What is the brand name of that holster? I like it.
mike campbell
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That's a Desantis 001BBS1Z0. It can be very difficult (confusing) to source.
I insist on a retention strap. Ever have a gun pop out of the holster when you drop your drawers in a porta-potty? Me neither.
Finding a retention strap holster for a hammerless J frame can be frustrating. I have a couple others, a Don Hume belt slide that I had to reposition the snap on . Also a Bianchi #3S IWB for a Ruger SP101 that I notched the strap so I could bend it forward over the frame.
The one pictured is my favorite.
I insist on a retention strap. Ever have a gun pop out of the holster when you drop your drawers in a porta-potty? Me neither.
Finding a retention strap holster for a hammerless J frame can be frustrating. I have a couple others, a Don Hume belt slide that I had to reposition the snap on . Also a Bianchi #3S IWB for a Ruger SP101 that I notched the strap so I could bend it forward over the frame.
The one pictured is my favorite.
Man I feel this. I have the same situation on the North Coast in Ohio. Winter is easy, but summer is extremely hard.
To answer your question, I only found two ways that worked for me and both involved J Frames or Micro 9's. YMMV
1. Belly band holsters (i.e. Smartcarry or Philster Enigma): I only have experience with the Smart Carry, though I know someone who swears by the Philster. If you have the cash, the Philster is superior in many ways.
Pros:
+Disappears in anything, including athletic shorts or board shorts.
+Comfortable (at least smart carry was)
+No belt required
+Relatively easy to put on and take off
+If you carry an auto, it can have a mag pouch
Cons:
- At least the smart carry had issues with revolver cylinders snagging on the draw. Philster eliminates that issue with city special kydex.
- The smart carry requires the added step of knife handing your waistband to gain access to the gun which is below the belt. This is easy to learn, but it does require practice and some people may think this is a red line.
- If you do not feel comfortable with soft holsters protecting the trigger or appendix carry it may not be for you.
Pocket Carry (Alabama Holster)/many choices: I have tried a few of these, but I settled on the Alabama for reasons I will elaborate on.
Pros:
+ Easiest to grab and go
+ No belts or set-up at all
+ Lightest weight
+ Able to draw in a subtle way that will not draw attention
+ Fast, easy draw
Cons:
- The holster might not fit every pocket, and in shallow pockets can fall out if you are not careful. Full disclosure I carry even in my house and a handful of times laying down in pajama pants has led to it falling out on a couch or bed due to shallow pockets. If you are mindful of this, its a non-issue, and never had a problem outside of the house. This is the reason I prefer the Alabama as it remains retained in the hard kydex even if this happens.
- It takes up a pocket, meaning my phone wallet and keys have to be dispersed in a weird way because my carry pocket is occupied solely by the gun
- Takes a bit to learn how to draw, especially with the hook system of Alabama. Easy once you figure it out though.
Once I went to pocket carry, I have never looked back. I carry EVERY SINGLE DAY, everywhere except the school where I work (not worth losing my career sadly). I even carry in the house until I go to bed. So unless I am at work or asleep, its on me. While I feel this doable with either system, because the smart carry had the cylinder snag issue, and required more setup, pocket for me was the way to go.
Hope this helps.
I'd love to own and carry one of the little .380s with minimal recoil and so small you can loose it in the smallest garment, but despite having shot as many as ten different ones, I can't seem to do much better than minute-of-man at 25yds.
A J-frame at that distance is a 3"-6" proposition for me.
Sure, 25yds is long for a personal encounter and 6" more than necessary, but I figure if I start there, by the time I pay the adrenaline penalty it's still a hit but if I start with a marginal situation then it might not be.
A J-frame at that distance is a 3"-6" proposition for me.
Sure, 25yds is long for a personal encounter and 6" more than necessary, but I figure if I start there, by the time I pay the adrenaline penalty it's still a hit but if I start with a marginal situation then it might not be.
Adrenaline Penalty
I got interested in this subject when I read "Stressfire" by Mas Ayoob, (great book). I realized that what he was describing doesn't happen to me. Well, I have never been shot at yet, but I am pretty sure anyway. Gimme a chance to find out
My brother was the same way. So was my Dad. Bro. and I figured it out from Dad's war stories especially when he was under fire on Okinawa. Bro. said it this way, "I can be very afraid, but I can still THINK." I agree that is how it feels for me too.
The Marines studied the phenomenon and determined that one in ten are not debilitated in any way by the stress response. (Similarly, they found that one in ten have the opposite reaction.) An important advancement was for the Corps to identify such a man during training school and give him the squad automatic weapon. I do not know how they do this, and no Marine has ever confirmed to me when or how the Corps does this, so TIFWIW. This is one of the many reasons that a USMC rifle squad is so much more effective than any other combat team on earth. They also have programs to minimize Combat/Operational Stress Reactions (COSRs) and COSRs casualties and related PTSDs.
Dad was a boxer in the Marine Corps. He said, "One in ten men have a glass jaw." He also thought that one in ten have an iron jaw. Dad was that way. Nobody could knock him out. Everybody else is on a spectrum between those extremes. Hopefully your assailant will go down easy, and you will not pay any adrenaline penalty in your marksmanship.
Please correct me anyone. I love to learn!
BrianD
I believe the stress response is overstated in the gun community. I love gun people. I really do. I am a gun people! Truth is we are dumb, just as dumb as anybody else, and we quote things to each other we have heard like it was proved.
I got interested in this subject when I read "Stressfire" by Mas Ayoob, (great book). I realized that what he was describing doesn't happen to me. Well, I have never been shot at yet, but I am pretty sure anyway. Gimme a chance to find out
My brother was the same way. So was my Dad. Bro. and I figured it out from Dad's war stories especially when he was under fire on Okinawa. Bro. said it this way, "I can be very afraid, but I can still THINK." I agree that is how it feels for me too. The Marines studied the phenomenon and determined that one in ten are not debilitated in any way by the stress response. (Similarly, they found that one in ten have the opposite reaction.) An important advancement was for the Corps to identify such a man during training school and give him the squad automatic weapon. I do not know how they do this, and no Marine has ever confirmed to me when or how the Corps does this, so TIFWIW. This is one of the many reasons that a USMC rifle squad is so much more effective than any other combat team on earth. They also have programs to minimize Combat/Operational Stress Reactions (COSRs) and COSRs casualties and related PTSDs.
Dad was a boxer in the Marine Corps. He said, "One in ten men have a glass jaw." He also thought that one in ten have an iron jaw. Dad was that way. Nobody could knock him out. Everybody else is on a spectrum between those extremes. Hopefully your assailant will go down easy, and you will not pay any adrenaline penalty in your marksmanship.
Please correct me anyone. I love to learn!
BrianD
I think you (and your dad) are on to something...I believe the stress response is overstated in the gun community. I love gun people. I really do. I am a gun people! Truth is we are dumb, just as dumb as anybody else, and we quote things to each other we have heard like it was proved.
I got interested in this subject when I read "Stressfire" by Mas Ayoob, (great book). I realized that what he was describing doesn't happen to me. Well, I have never been shot at yet, but I am pretty sure anyway. Gimme a chance to find out
The Marines studied the phenomenon and determined that one in ten are not debilitated in any way by the stress response. (Similarly, they found that one in ten have the opposite reaction.) An important advancement was for the Corps to identify such a man during training school and give him the squad automatic weapon. I do not know how they do this, and no Marine has ever confirmed to me when or how the Corps does this, so TIFWIW. This is one of the many reasons that a USMC rifle squad is so much more effective than any other combat team on earth. They also have programs to minimize Combat/Operational Stress Reactions (COSRs) and COSRs casualties and related PTSDs.
Dad was a boxer in the Marine Corps. He said, "One in ten men have a glass jaw." He also thought that one in ten have an iron jaw. Dad was that way. Nobody could knock him out. Everybody else is on a spectrum between those extremes. Hopefully your assailant will go down easy, and you will not pay any adrenaline penalty in your marksmanship.
Please correct me anyone. I love to learn!
BrianD
I may not be the "1 in 10" - either in the ability to act/react perfectly under stress OR in having an "iron jaw".
But what I can say, is that, although I have never been shot at I have shown the ability to take effective action in some extremely stressful and even life-threatening situations many times over the last 60 years.
Back in my brawling days I got knocked down numerous times but never knocked out or taken out of the fight - even the time the other guy split my head open (3" gash) with the claws of a hammer. I may not have an iron jaw but I've got one hell of a hard head!
