heeter3
Member
I have always been partial to the 442.I put herrett shooting stars on mine for a little more grip to hold on to. It pocket carries comfortably with the right pants and I can shoot .38 s easily with little to no bite.
J Frame Questions from Beginner
- Thread starter BDTeacher
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Oldshot
Member
Check out J frame advise in post featured in The Ambersand for more excellent info. If you want a used, little fired snubby the local pawn shops are a good bet. Many folks are not willing to put up with the recoil ( even 38spl)and work it takes to shoot 'em accurately. Don't be timid about offering on a gun. Pawn shops finance their inventory and the faster it sells the better for them.If you have large hands you may want to invest in a pair of custom grips. It will make a lot of difference in controlling the recovery after the first shot. Having the bbl ported will result in some loss of muzzle velocity and added expense but your 2 thru 5/6 shots will be right on and you can practice with full patch loads .357 mag or +p to your heart's content. I carry a 7 shot .357 2" Ported( came that way)Taurus M-617 (Heresy but no stones please). It's steel, so IWB not pocket but it works for me. Good luck.
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The J frames are, in my opinion, only for experts. They have, due to their geometry, stiff little triggers so that ignition is reliable. That, combined with light weight, short sight radius and lots of felt recoil, make them exceedingly difficult to use at anything but very short range.
It seems to me that a small 9mm is a better choice, even for pocket carry. The Shield has a lighter trigger, less felt recoil due to the reciprocating slide and recoil spring, more ammo, the best 9mm ammo is better than the best 38 Special ammo, and the barrels are a little longer, with correspondingly longer sight radius, making the small self-loader easier to shoot.
A J frame is a classic, no doubt, but I think if you try one with stout loads side-by-side with a 9mm Shield or Glock 19 or something like that, the choice will be obvious.
Here is a comparison of a J frame with a Glock 19, just so you realize that they take up about the same real estate. And the Glock holds three times the number of rounds (15 versus 5).
If you really have to have a revolver, the 642 is the way to go.
It seems to me that a small 9mm is a better choice, even for pocket carry. The Shield has a lighter trigger, less felt recoil due to the reciprocating slide and recoil spring, more ammo, the best 9mm ammo is better than the best 38 Special ammo, and the barrels are a little longer, with correspondingly longer sight radius, making the small self-loader easier to shoot.
A J frame is a classic, no doubt, but I think if you try one with stout loads side-by-side with a 9mm Shield or Glock 19 or something like that, the choice will be obvious.
Here is a comparison of a J frame with a Glock 19, just so you realize that they take up about the same real estate. And the Glock holds three times the number of rounds (15 versus 5).
If you really have to have a revolver, the 642 is the way to go.
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kozmic
Member
The 442/642 are basically snag proof and although I hate pocket carry would be a great choice.
I put the long Crimson Trace stocks on mine to get my pinky on the gun. It handles recoil very well. If you were going to pocket carry the smaller CT (about the same size as the originals) might work for you.
Also, I just bought a box of Hornady 90gr. Critical Defense with a claimed 30% lighter recoil for my wife. We haven't shot them yet but their stuff and claims are usually spot on. I found them on line at Cabelas.
I put the long Crimson Trace stocks on mine to get my pinky on the gun. It handles recoil very well. If you were going to pocket carry the smaller CT (about the same size as the originals) might work for you.
Also, I just bought a box of Hornady 90gr. Critical Defense with a claimed 30% lighter recoil for my wife. We haven't shot them yet but their stuff and claims are usually spot on. I found them on line at Cabelas.
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Kadonny
Member
In my opinion, the G19 is a much larger gun to pocket carry and not nearly the same as the J frame. And yes, I do own both. I know you showed the side by side, but even in the pic the 19 is clearly larger plus it's thicker and much, much heavier loaded with the 15 rounds than an Airweight J.
Is the J frame harder to master shooting it? Eh, maybe a little bit, but it's a very capable and reliable pocket gun. There have been a ton of j frames sold for a reason, and that reason surely isn't competition and target shooting.
CatboatWilly
Member
Don't forget that you asked your question on The Smith & Wesson Forum.
But you are making a transition from an auto loader to a small frame revolver.
Why don't you buy yourself a less expensive copy of a 'J' frame - such as a Taurus or a Rossi - carry it for a while and see if you like the feel. If you do - then sell it off and invest in a J frame... I carry my 1969 Model 36 quite comfortably and have for years.
But you are making a transition from an auto loader to a small frame revolver.
Why don't you buy yourself a less expensive copy of a 'J' frame - such as a Taurus or a Rossi - carry it for a while and see if you like the feel. If you do - then sell it off and invest in a J frame... I carry my 1969 Model 36 quite comfortably and have for years.
Hendel
US Veteran
See if you can save an old J frame from a pawn shop or sumsuch.
In the pocket, every single day.......
In the pocket, every single day.......
How do you define short range and long range?
Reason, is I'm regularly hitting the head and center mass of IDPA targets with my 640 at 50-60 feet. That's about the limit I can hit accurately right now but I keep practicing and I am getting better.
Then again I think the 640 is the perfect beginners gun, nice and heavy so low recoil even with .357, long hard trigger pull so you know for sure when you are firing, easy to carry in a variety of locations so very concealable and easy to practice with using inexpensive 38 spl ammo. Depends on your POV I think.
I would emphasize the weight factor. I usually carry a Model 38 with stock boot grips in the front pocket and sometimes a 442 with large Crimson Trace grips. Both are comfortable all day long. I've tried front pocket carry with all steel 357 magnum revolvers but the extra half to three quarters of a pound makes it too uncomfortable for all day carry in my experience.
With the larger CT grips on the 442 I've find Buffalo Bore 158 gr +P recoil unpleasant but manageable. If their specs can be believed, my little 442 is delivering near 357magnum performance.
New prices for J frames in my area are in the $400 range.
With the larger CT grips on the 442 I've find Buffalo Bore 158 gr +P recoil unpleasant but manageable. If their specs can be believed, my little 442 is delivering near 357magnum performance.
New prices for J frames in my area are in the $400 range.
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airman
WW II Vet
I carried a delightful 642 in an ankle rig for a while. Couldn't tell it was there.
But practice was painful so I traded for a 60-4. Not so easy to pack but fun at the range.
But practice was painful so I traded for a 60-4. Not so easy to pack but fun at the range.
hotrod150
Member
I don't think you'd save enough money doing this to make it worth the time & hassle. I doubt youre gonna find a Tauyrus for much under $300, which is what I paid for two different 442-2's in the past year or so. Paid the same for a vintage model 36 last summer. Good deals are out there- you just have to find them..
I do prefer my vintage Chief Specials (I currently own five and have bought & sold 6 or 7 others in the past couple years), but IMHO the 442/642 is about the best value there is in an good-for-everything self-defense gun for the average person. Yes they do require practice to obtain proficiency, but the DAO revolver is simple to load, simple to operate, easy to carry, and affordable to boot. Load, point and pull. No bang? Pull again. Much less chance of an accidental (dare I say premature?) discharge than with a cockable SA-capable model like the Chief. I will admit that after owning all three different models of the vintage Chief Spl, a couple airweight Centennials, and a couple Colt Dick Spl's, plus some larger guns (k-frames 1911's etc)-- the S&W model 36 is my favorite gun. I currently own three and am scheming to get another soon.
You really don't need another reply but I'll toss one in, anyway.
For pocket carry the ideal J-frame has either a concealed or a shrouded hammer. You can carry one with a hammer but it's pointless to buy one to start with when you already know that the lack of a hammer makes pocket carry extremely easy.
That said, 442, 642, it doesn't matter from a real world viewpoint. They're lightweight, hammers are concealed, they're ideal. I carry a 642 every day. I load it with high quality .38 Special self defense ammunition, no +P, I want an easy second shot if I'm defending myself, I don't need to fight off recoil to get back on target. I'd never even shoot a lightweight J-frame with .357 Magnum ammo at the range, even if it's designed for it. Who needs that much pain? It's not worth it, never mind the getting back on target issue if you're carrying it.
The phrase that is oft used is that these guns are designed to be shot a little and carried a lot. But if practice is painful it's just silly. YMMV.
***GRJ***
For pocket carry the ideal J-frame has either a concealed or a shrouded hammer. You can carry one with a hammer but it's pointless to buy one to start with when you already know that the lack of a hammer makes pocket carry extremely easy.
That said, 442, 642, it doesn't matter from a real world viewpoint. They're lightweight, hammers are concealed, they're ideal. I carry a 642 every day. I load it with high quality .38 Special self defense ammunition, no +P, I want an easy second shot if I'm defending myself, I don't need to fight off recoil to get back on target. I'd never even shoot a lightweight J-frame with .357 Magnum ammo at the range, even if it's designed for it. Who needs that much pain? It's not worth it, never mind the getting back on target issue if you're carrying it.
The phrase that is oft used is that these guns are designed to be shot a little and carried a lot. But if practice is painful it's just silly. YMMV.
***GRJ***
gvrogers1
Member
I have carried a 442 for about three years. Best holster for me is a front pocket Desanti Nemisis. The airweight is about 10 oz lighter than a 649. So I would look for a 442 without the internal lock (looks ugly IMO), buy the holster for around $20, and then buy a Crimson Trace Laser (CTL) and install it yourself. I bought the CTL model that is more recoil forgiving and just costs a few bucks more. With those grips, recoil has never been an issue for me with the airweight. You won't be disappointed. Best of luck.
gvrogers1
Member
FYI, the CTL I have is model LG405 rubber overmold and apparently designed to reduce perceived recoil. I think its great.
Matt Hooper
Member
I was in the same boat. I also have arthritis and am a bit recoil sensitive. The best answer for me was a 649! A bit hard to find but this is an all steel revolver with a shrouded hammer that's perfect for CCW!! The airweights are NOT fun to shoot so I decided to go with all steel.
Without a doubt the most accurate snubbie I have ever shot. Brilliant gun!
Shown here with some Ahrends cocobolo grips I had kicking around and a vintage Don Hume paddle holster (perfect fit)! Thanks for looking!
Without a doubt the most accurate snubbie I have ever shot. Brilliant gun!
Shown here with some Ahrends cocobolo grips I had kicking around and a vintage Don Hume paddle holster (perfect fit)! Thanks for looking!
mg357
Absent Comrade
s&w model 36 2 inch barrel. or a S&W Model 60-15 3 inch barrel.
photoman
Member
A pre-lock 642 or 640 with three finger rubber grips and Hornady 110 grain standard pressure FTX ammo is my recommendation.
