J-Frame Vintage Holsters?

[NCBeagle]

Three inch Model 37

 

[les.b]

Well, I'm surprised that no one has posted a Bianchi "Lightning". I bought this one back in the 70s, if I remember correctly, maybe later....and have carried a lot of hammerless Smiths in it...pictured here with a modern 340 PD, but also fits older versions of the Centennial style Smiths, and Bodyguards as well:



Back side:



Retaining strap goes over the trigger guard:



This probably dates back to Red's time at Bianchi, maybe he can tell us about it. I have a lot of the Bodygaurd and Centennial style guns, and usually carry IWB or pocket carry, but this is an alternative.

Best Regards, Les

 

[rednichols]

Well, I'm surprised that no one has posted a Bianchi "Lightning".

It's there, post #20 from db . Its era is a bit late to suit the OP's query; would have to check my Bianchi catalogues to be sure as to late '70s or early '80s. And although I created it for the company, to suit the Bodyguards et al. when the #5BH wouldn't, nevertheless it's just the latter holster with the thumbsnap moved to be a fingersnap; so not much of a challenge for even a novice designer (except for perhaps thinking of it in the first place). I think it's still in their line, as one of a handful that survived into the 21st century from my period there.

The Gaylord v Theodore query: backsides show both men's version (here the one NOT marked Seventrees is the Gaylord). Both men used the rivets at one end or the other of the seam; use of the rivets I find puzzling because they both used nylon thread before any of the rest of us; and used the dense horsehide, too; so I doubt they could've had seam failures. Either they over-engineered, or the rivet was for some other reason. Be aware that neither of them used welts in the seam, so these are not correctly called 'threepersons' holsters. Instead they relied on double stitching and were the first to do it; Bruce Nelson later copied it for his holsters. Chic's and Paris's are always stitched 'upside down' at the welt: the bobbin side is facing outwards; whereas all other makers have the bobbin side to the backside of the holster; I believe this is because they used flatbed sewing machines and the belt loop got in the way of doing it conventionally, whereas saddlery machines are designed to avoid 'things that go bump in the night' on the backside.





Neither is better than the other, because neither is optimal. Bianchi's version is best and was used by Wolfram (who likely created it) and by Shoemaker and Safariland (start at the pointed tip, go around twice and about 1/8" apart, finishing at the pointed tip, which is furthest from the point of strain). Heiser and Bucheimer (same designer) and Myres used a single loop 'round the outside; with Myres strongest for starting at the tip and Bucheimer weakest for starting at one corner near the belt with no meaningful stitch overlap there.

 

[les.b]

Thanks, Red, I see that I even gave it a "like"!!! Some say the first thing to go is the memory.

Apologies to -db-, and to Red!!

Well, Red, it's really an honor to have a holster that you designed. I was still on the police department when I got this little holster, and that was back when an on duty police officer could fly with their gun on...hard to imagine doing that today. Anyway, I ised to wear this little holster along with a square butt model 37 with a bobbed hammer. Traveled literally from coast to coast picking up and bringing home guys that had been picked up by other departments on our warrants. I still have the gun and the holster!! Always liked it and admired the neat design, and craftsmanship!!

Thanks for the info,

Best Regards, Les

 

[crazyphil]

Unfortunately, one of the problems (for us collectors) with Gaylord and Theodore is that both are known to have sometimes put their makers marks on the rough-side leather that forms the belt loop, where it is easily obliterated due to wear, instead of locating it on the smooth leather of the holster body.

That's interesting db. I have a couple of holsters made by
Thad Rybka and he also puts his mark in the rough.

 

[rednichols]

Unfortunately, one of the problems (for us collectors) with Gaylord and Theodore is that both are known to have sometimes put their makers marks on the rough-side leather that forms the belt loop, where it is easily obliterated due to wear, instead of locating it on the smooth leather of the holster body.

Though Seventrees used a hot stamp to get around this problem. I've more than one pic of the result when his stamp was a bit hot for the job and burned the leather 'round the impression. But Gaylord holsters with a faint or missing stamp are almost standard, as if he didn't really care if the mark survived the sale. Horsehide is also notoriously dense and his stamp had too much flat area to stamp with (notice Paris' is quite sharp).

 

[jimmyj]

Awesome gents thank you.

So we've talked a little bit about holsters, but what about spare shells? I know back "then" speedloaders weren't really a big thing yet. Did the chiefs, undercover guys, etc. people with J-frames carry spare ammo in loops, cartridge slides, loose in a pocket, dump pouch, etc.? Anyone have and personal experience from back then?

Six round cartridge slide or seven rounds loose in the front right hand (two extra rounds was insurance in case one or two pocket rounds were dropped trying to reload)

 

[-db-]

That's interesting db. I have a couple of holsters made by
Thad Rybka and he also puts his mark in the rough.

Phil, I've got an interesting early Rybka holster arriving soon. I'll post some photos here once I get it in hand.

 

[crazyphil]

Phil, I've got an interesting early Rybka holster arriving soon. I'll post some photos here once I get it in hand.

While waiting for yours to arrive you can look at mine.
With LCR left & center.
With Model 19 at right.

 

[crazyphil]

That is a nifty looking Brauer Bros. with the tooling & lacing.

It's easy to see the lineage John, from your Gaylord/Seventrees
to my Ken Null shown here.

 

[crazyphil]

There are a few holster models with safety straps that accommodated the Centennials and Bodyguards although Red is right, strapless is best for those models.
Here's a Brauer Brothers holster that fits a wide range of J frames- this was a gift from forum member Watchdog.

Strapless Bianchi.

This one is marked "Almar New York "

An unusual Berns-Martin holster for a 2" J frame.

Another odd holster made by Western Saddlery in Tampa, Florida.

El Paso Saddlery cross draw.

I don't have this holster any more but I think it was a Gaylord.

I've always had J frame revolvers and have found a lot of holsters for them over the years.
Regards,
turnerriver

This is the one I intended to get in the above post John.

 

[rednichols]

It's easy to see the lineage John, from your Gaylord/Seventrees
to my Ken Null shown here.

Yes, Null does the 'upside down' stitching, too; but notice at the welt seam that Ken has incorporated a 'welt effect' by stitching 'round the frame in front of the trigger guard, which neither Chic nor Paris did (but the amount of 'pinch' it would add for retention would be nominal, so it's largely a styling exercise). Makers often look for a 'point of difference' in stitch patterns, such as welt and belt loop areas. In that way they become like MacDonald's 'golden arches': it's a clue to tell a consumer what to expect as to the quality of the source.

 

[maxjames2]

Six round cartridge slide or seven rounds loose in the front right hand (two extra rounds was insurance in case one or two pocket rounds were dropped trying to reload)

There were belt loops that snap on with 6 rounds and dump pouches with 6 rounds sometimes with spaces for two rounds each. These were less noticeable on the belt if your jacket flapped in the wind. These days when I carry a revolver in plainclothes, I use both types and a Speed strip in the right front pocket. I carry a 640 in my front left pocket or in a Buchiemer Clark Sheriff model, which is similar to the Lewis Police Special. I carry a 19 2 1/2 in either a Kramer, a Galco, or an old school Bianchii FBI tilt holster. I went on the job in SoCal in 76. Lewis holsters and Buchiemer Clark were routinely seen on the plainclothes folks.

 

[crazyphil]

There were belt loops that snap on with 6 rounds and dump pouches with 6 rounds sometimes with spaces for two rounds each. These were less noticeable on the belt if your jacket flapped in the wind. These days when I carry a revolver in plainclothes, I use both types and a Speed strip in the right front pocket. I carry a 640 in my front left pocket or in a Buchiemer Clark Sheriff model, which is similar to the Lewis Police Special. I carry a 19 2 1/2 in either a Kramer, a Galco, or an old school Bianchii FBI tilt holster. I went on the job in SoCal in 76. Lewis holsters and Buchiemer Clark were routinely seen on the plainclothes folks.

Here Max Left to Right:

Bucheimer Sheriff carrying my vintage Charter Undercover.

Lewis Police Special snap on with my S&W Model 10 2" barrel.

 

[bruce5781]

Is the Colt "D" frame the same as a "J" ?
I picked this Myres up recently and don't have anything that fits it.

Regards,
Bruce

 

[les.b]

Bruce, the Colt "D" frame is between the Smith and Wesson "J" frame, and the "K" frame. It is a six shot 38 Special, but slightly smaller than the "K" frame six shot. For example, most of my "J" frame holsters will not accept a Detective Special, as it is very slightly larger, but my Galco pocket holster will hold either one, since it has a more generous cut.

Best Regards, Les

 

[bruce5781]

Thanks Les,
This one was priced so cheap that I put myself in a "buy first, ask questions later" situation.

Regards,
Bruce

 

[crazyphil]

Holsters made for Detective Special accept a Ruger SP101 purty good.

 

[-db-]

Thanks Les,
This one was priced so cheap that I put myself in a "buy first, ask questions later" situation. ��

Regards,
Bruce

Bruce, I sold you that one on GB.

Now you need to find a Colt DS showing some wear but unfortunately I can't help you with that.

 

[bruce5781]

Bruce, I sold you that one on GB.

Now you need to find a Colt DS showing some wear but unfortunately I can't help you with that.

Thanks, Tom.
It was a pleasure doing business with you.

Regards,
Bruce