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Is there a downside to shooting jacketed bullets? Other than the cost of the bullet?.
Jacketed bullets
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Is there a downside to shooting jacketed bullets? Other than the cost of the bullet?.
ingmansinc
US Veteran
To the best of my knowledge they are better to shoot as they don't deposit lead in the barrel. If this is not correct I'm sure the more knowledgeable members of our forum will let us know quickly.
Sir, jacketed bullets, as well as gas checks, are reputed to wear the bore faster than lead bullets. I've not tested the theory in pistols, but it seems reasonable--gilding metal is harder than lead and has a higher coefficient of friction (thus generating more heat per shot).
I do know it's entirely possible to wear out a high-powered rifle bore with jacketed bullets. Been there, done that--a few times.
Hope this helps, and Semper Fi.
Ron H.
I do know it's entirely possible to wear out a high-powered rifle bore with jacketed bullets. Been there, done that--a few times.
Hope this helps, and Semper Fi.
Ron H.
I think most of the wear in small arms is caused by hot gases rather than friction from bullets. That is especially true of rifles where most of the wear is in the form of throat erosion. I have also noticed it in magnum revolvers which tend to show gas erosion in the forcing cone and first couple of inches of the barrel.
If you've ever seen a machine gun barrel that has been fired extensively, the rifling is severely eroded in the first several inches of the rifling.
If you've ever seen a machine gun barrel that has been fired extensively, the rifling is severely eroded in the first several inches of the rifling.
cmort666
Member
On the other hand, they deposit copper in the barrel, which is a lot harder to get out. Nevermind that they're significantly more expensive. The ONLY jacketed bullet ammunition I have is JHP self-defense loads for my semi-autos. ALL of my handloads in pistol calibers use cast or swaged lead bullets.Originally posted by ingmansinc:
To the best of my knowledge they are better to shoot as they don't deposit lead in the barrel. If this is not correct I'm sure the more knowledgeable members of our forum will let us know quickly.
gunsmith11
Member
I am not sure it makes a difference, cant find bullets lead or jacketed and any store
+1
In early Smith 29's, the factory recommended not shooting jacketed bullets in them. The steels then weren't as well heat treated as now.
I don't believe that the average shooter will wear out their barrel by using jacketed bullets, but peak accuracy will be maintained much longer by using lead. Pressures with lead are also much less with identical loads, one using jacketed, one using lead, which helps the gun last longer. Lead slides down the bore with very little resistance.
I hope this helped somewhat.
john traveler
Member
In a former life, I was involved in durability testing of 25mm automatic cannon barrels. Let's just summarize by stating that bullets and projectiles do not wear out small arms barrels. Powder and primers do.
The typical documented wear pattern visible after just a couple dozen rounds firing is rounding of the throat and leade surfaces, and flame washing of the entire throat area. This progresses to brinelling (heat induced crazing of the steel surface) of the throat, leading to moderate and then severe throat erosion. This takes thousands of rounds of firing. Before and after inspections of the entire barrel bore from throat to muzzle shows neglible enlargement of the bore due to friction. And this from mild steel cased projectiles! Barrel life was measured in the several thousands of rounds and based on ability to strike a target of given size at a given distance.
The same wear can be seen in the flame cutting of magnum revolver barrels. Notice that the flame cutting is most evident when slow burning magnum powders are used: H110, WW 296, 2400, etc. For all practical purposes, revolver barrel life is infinite. It is so extremely unlikely that a shooter or several shooters, can wear out a revolver barrel from shooting.
The typical documented wear pattern visible after just a couple dozen rounds firing is rounding of the throat and leade surfaces, and flame washing of the entire throat area. This progresses to brinelling (heat induced crazing of the steel surface) of the throat, leading to moderate and then severe throat erosion. This takes thousands of rounds of firing. Before and after inspections of the entire barrel bore from throat to muzzle shows neglible enlargement of the bore due to friction. And this from mild steel cased projectiles! Barrel life was measured in the several thousands of rounds and based on ability to strike a target of given size at a given distance.
The same wear can be seen in the flame cutting of magnum revolver barrels. Notice that the flame cutting is most evident when slow burning magnum powders are used: H110, WW 296, 2400, etc. For all practical purposes, revolver barrel life is infinite. It is so extremely unlikely that a shooter or several shooters, can wear out a revolver barrel from shooting.
Out West
Member
Good post John Traveler. Thanks,
Out West
Out West
gaucho1
Member
Well John
Sounds like I will be fire lapping
all my guns as soon as possible.
That what your post means,right?
Sounds like I will be fire lapping
all my guns as soon as possible.
That what your post means,right?
OP
ambassador
Member
Fire lapping sounds good to me!.
If you intend to shoot really hot loads, you are better off with jacketed as lead will deposit lead in the bore at those high velocities. If you shoot at more target velocities, you are much better using lead. The difference is in the cleaning of the barrel.
Just some observations - bear with me.
First, for ordinary rifles, it is the hot gases that erode modern rifle barrels. During WWII Ordnance tested the efficacy of 8-, 6-, 4, and 2-groove barrels. They concluded that there was no accuracy trade-offs between 4-groove and 2-groove barrels, and 2-groove barrels were sufficient for the job, produced a significant cost savings, and thus authorized the production switch to 2-groove barrels for the 1903A3 Springfield. However, they also tested the barrel wear from the friction effects of the bullet passage, using both compressed air and powder as propellants, and found the frictional wear to be negligible with FMJ projectiles. Throat erosion from burning gases is the killer and allows a useful barrel life of 4,000-5,000+ rounds in the M1 with good accuracy, but actually up to 8,000 + rounds before the barrel is totally "burned out" and "bounces" down the barrel. However, many of the old-timers cautioned that soft steels, such as used in the 1873/84 Trapdoor Springfield dating from the late 1800's, can be quicly eroded by frictional effects when using jacketed slugs and high-temp burning smokeless powders. That's why I use only BP and cast slugs in the old smokepoles.(Ref: Multiple articles in the American Rifleman in the 50's and 60'). The Jouster.com Forums and its archives, regrettably now gone, discussed these issues in great detail.
Elmer Keith, who worked as an arms inspector at the Ogden Arsenal/Depot during WWII, has written that the S&W US M-1917 utilized barrels were made from relatively soft steels, and stated that the rifling could be worn out after 5,000 rounds of ball ammo. I have no reason to doubt his word on this, and certainly don't intend to test this in my Brazilian (at today's ammo reloading component costs, I can't even afford it!)
I have shot ten's of thousands of rounds of jacketed bullets through several of my post-war N-fraces (and 2-3X that in cast slugs), and have not found any eyeball-visible indications of barrel erosion from JHP/JSP use. Instead, I find the usual topstrap flame-cutting and discoloration of the forcing cone. In K models (19/66/13/65) the erosion from ejected burning powder particles in hot ligher-weight (110/125 gtn) bullets can severely erode the forrcing cone. As we all know, this led to discontinuation of the K magnum models and re-engineering to produce the beefier L-frames.
If there is to be any significant wear or damage to a magnum-chambered L/N/X barrel, I personally suspect it will be due to mechanical factors, such as copper fouling build- up that is not removed on a regular basis, and from other debris that might act as an abrasive.The forcing cones and breech end may show insignificant erosion. Only Ruger's 357 Maximum suffered significantly from this problem and was withdrawn from production.
Just a few other tips based on 39 years of S&W magnum shooting: The Lewis Lead Remover, still available from Brownells, does a great job of removing excessive fouling build-up. And continuous DA- and heavy max magnum load use will over time and many many thousands of rounds loosen up your favorite revolver. (And they can be rectifie).
BUT, go ahead and enjoy it- there's over 6 billion other two-legged critters on this planet who will never have the freedom or means to engager in this wonderful passion and pastime.
AND JOIH THE NRA!. PLEASE.
Cheers,
Sverre
First, for ordinary rifles, it is the hot gases that erode modern rifle barrels. During WWII Ordnance tested the efficacy of 8-, 6-, 4, and 2-groove barrels. They concluded that there was no accuracy trade-offs between 4-groove and 2-groove barrels, and 2-groove barrels were sufficient for the job, produced a significant cost savings, and thus authorized the production switch to 2-groove barrels for the 1903A3 Springfield. However, they also tested the barrel wear from the friction effects of the bullet passage, using both compressed air and powder as propellants, and found the frictional wear to be negligible with FMJ projectiles. Throat erosion from burning gases is the killer and allows a useful barrel life of 4,000-5,000+ rounds in the M1 with good accuracy, but actually up to 8,000 + rounds before the barrel is totally "burned out" and "bounces" down the barrel. However, many of the old-timers cautioned that soft steels, such as used in the 1873/84 Trapdoor Springfield dating from the late 1800's, can be quicly eroded by frictional effects when using jacketed slugs and high-temp burning smokeless powders. That's why I use only BP and cast slugs in the old smokepoles.(Ref: Multiple articles in the American Rifleman in the 50's and 60'). The Jouster.com Forums and its archives, regrettably now gone, discussed these issues in great detail.
Elmer Keith, who worked as an arms inspector at the Ogden Arsenal/Depot during WWII, has written that the S&W US M-1917 utilized barrels were made from relatively soft steels, and stated that the rifling could be worn out after 5,000 rounds of ball ammo. I have no reason to doubt his word on this, and certainly don't intend to test this in my Brazilian (at today's ammo reloading component costs, I can't even afford it!)
I have shot ten's of thousands of rounds of jacketed bullets through several of my post-war N-fraces (and 2-3X that in cast slugs), and have not found any eyeball-visible indications of barrel erosion from JHP/JSP use. Instead, I find the usual topstrap flame-cutting and discoloration of the forcing cone. In K models (19/66/13/65) the erosion from ejected burning powder particles in hot ligher-weight (110/125 gtn) bullets can severely erode the forrcing cone. As we all know, this led to discontinuation of the K magnum models and re-engineering to produce the beefier L-frames.
If there is to be any significant wear or damage to a magnum-chambered L/N/X barrel, I personally suspect it will be due to mechanical factors, such as copper fouling build- up that is not removed on a regular basis, and from other debris that might act as an abrasive.The forcing cones and breech end may show insignificant erosion. Only Ruger's 357 Maximum suffered significantly from this problem and was withdrawn from production.
Just a few other tips based on 39 years of S&W magnum shooting: The Lewis Lead Remover, still available from Brownells, does a great job of removing excessive fouling build-up. And continuous DA- and heavy max magnum load use will over time and many many thousands of rounds loosen up your favorite revolver. (And they can be rectifie).
BUT, go ahead and enjoy it- there's over 6 billion other two-legged critters on this planet who will never have the freedom or means to engager in this wonderful passion and pastime.
AND JOIH THE NRA!. PLEASE.
Cheers,
Sverre
gregintenn
Member
Lead=expensive
Jacketed=SUPER EXPENSIVE!!!
Jacketed=SUPER EXPENSIVE!!!
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