"JELLY BRYCE/FBI HOLSTER CONNECTION"

crazyphil

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In previous threads we discussed the hammer shroud, shield, protector, "dog ear", etc. or whatever you choose to call it: Wally Wolfram holsters, Safariland "dog ears", S&W 01 FBI holsters, Bucheimer's "Hank Sloan" holster, Milt Sparks 200AW, et al, ad nauseam.

Well here is another wrinkle I would like to throw into the confusion:

I have tried for some time to find a good photo of Delf "Jelly" Bryce with his holster, but no luck so far. From another thread, Jelly Bryce holster? P.4 posted some photos and a video, which I believe are the only Bryce holster photos I have seen. But they were unclear and inconclusive. Whoever posted the video wasn't even certain it was Jelly.

Jelly, like most of us, undoubtedly had several, or more, holsters.

In his book Legendary Lawman, Ron Owens said "Jelly Bryce was responsible for creating the FBI's first firearms training program, developing their concealed holster and their fast draw techniques." There are some references to this statement in Historical Dictionary of Law Enforcement by Roth & Olson, and also some reference to it in To Serve and Protect by Floyd & Helms. But I'm uncertain as whether owens was quoting them or they were quoting him.

Unfortunately there are a lot of quotes that get passed around to the point that I can't give credit to the original source, because I don't know who it is, such as some of the following:

Jelly was FBI Special Agent in Charge in El Paso in 1941, then in San Antonia, Albuquerque, & Oklahoma City. During this period He designed what came to be known as the FBI fast draw holster.

Only description of Jelly's holster, developed for the FBI concealed carry was a Threepersons variation with the trigger guard covered - probably (made) by Myres.

The only problem with this notion that Jelly Bryce designed the FBI hoster? I contacted Larry Wack (Dusty Roads of an FBI Era) in February 2015 and asked what he knew about Jelly designing the FBI holster. Here is his response: "in all of the thousands of pages of FBI files, I have never seen any reference to any holster designed by Bryce for the Bureau."

Moreover, George Franklin, whos father was an agent in the 1930s and very close to Bryce, said he never heard of any Bryce holster for the Bureau either.

Another description by unknown author: Jelly's holster, developed for the FBI concealed carry was a Threepersons variation with the trigger guard covered - probably made by Myres.

Pighunter on S&W Forum December 2011 refers to a post by Jim Higinbotham on another forum, he refers to Mr. Bryce's holster as a Threepersons variation with a covered trigger. Probably an S.D. Myres rig.

Yet another, post on S&W Forum by gcouger March 16 2015 suggests the holster might have been made by Jelly's Dad who was a leather worker, or maybe even by Jelly himself.

Raymon Kasbaum, Jelly's step-brother, said it was heavily modified, rear belt loop smaller than front to allow foreward tilt and to rock upon drawing & didn't have a real good hold on the gun. (I think he meant the holster was loose, not providing a tight hold on the gun.)

My thoughts:

Jelly Bryce and Sam Myres were friends. As mentioned previously, Jelly was in El Paso in 1941 and He was also a pallbearer at Sam's funeral. He undoubtedly owned one or more holsters made by Sam Myres.

Whoever started the legend that said "trigger guard was covered" could have been mistaken and really meant hammer was covered? I can't believe Jelly would have his trigger covered at that time in history?

In none of our previous threads have we came to a definite conclusion about the origination of the hammer shroud. Perhaps it was one of Jelly's modifications? The time period, during the 1940s, fits.

The fact that Larry Wack found nothing in the FBI files doesn't necessarily mean Jelly didn't design an FBI holster. It is logical to believe he would have taken his design to a holster maker, like his friend Sam Myres.

Again, I'm sorry about quoting or paraphrasing some without being able to give credit, if I knew who they were, I would give them proper credit.

If this is more than you want to think about, I understand. To many it probably doesn't make any difference. But I am a holster nut and love history. I would like to know you thoughts.
 
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Heiser first cataloged their model 457 holster in the number 32 catalog, around 1938 ( the High Standard model E pistol is listed and that was first made in or around 1938 ) and stated "This holster was designed for the F.B.I. of Washington, D.C. who require holster for fast draw." B.T. Crump had a contract for holsters for the Bureau that General Van Orden of Evaluators, Ltd. tried to switch to Heiser but that was a little later, late 1940's and early 1950's. All of these holsters were open trigger guard variants of the Threepersons design. I've never seen anything about a Bryce designed holster or been aware of any examples. A man like that would certainly have his own ideas about what holster to wear and I have heard that his father might have made his holster. It would be great to run across evidence or even a decent photo. No discussion of holster history is too esoteric for me.
Regards,
turnerriver
 
turnerriver I have a vintage Heiser identical to model 457 except it does
not have model number stamped on it. It has the older HHH mark.
Vintage Gunleather says that mark was used from 1910 to 1925. If they
are right my pre-457 would have to be during or prior to 1925.
I was suggesting that perhaps Myres Threepersons that looks much like
Heiser 457 was what Jelly modified for his FBI holster. Perhaps adding
the hammer protector. We will probably never know, but its interesting
to study.
 
Heiser used that logo throughout the 1900's, I have a holster that wasn't cataloged until after WW II with that stamp on it.That logo was used more frequently in earlier times but it isn't a reliable means of dating holsters IMHO.
There's got to be a photo somewhere showing Agent Bryce's holster.
Regards,
turnerriver
 
turnerriver I have a vintage Heiser identical to model 457 except it does
not have model number stamped on it. It has the older HHH mark.
Vintage Gunleather says that mark was used from 1910 to 1925. If they
are right my pre-457 would have to be during or prior to 1925.
I was suggesting that perhaps Myres Threepersons that looks much like
Heiser 457 was what Jelly modified for his FBI holster. Perhaps adding
the hammer protector. We will probably never know, but its interesting
to study.

Here is a late 50s vintage Evaluators Ltd. holster like what is described above with an early Model 19 also from Evaluators Ltd.

130274781.eLulGB3V.sw19c.jpg
 
Last edited:
I'm sure there is a photo somewhere showing Bryce with his holster.
I have believed it for a long, long time, but still looking. It's the same
as Cirillo. I never found his exact hoster rig, but I think I was able to
zero in on the style.
 
A few clues...

Hello All:

I imagine this renewed search was initiated by Alan Soellner of Chisholm's Trail? I had a conversation with him the other day about Jelly's holster (he produces excellent leather gear and is working on producing a replica of Jelly's holster), and he told me he was going to reach out to a few folks to see if any more info was available.

Anyway, I have been digging through my files and came up with a few photos. I will post them here and hope they are of some help. Most of the images are old and a bit grainy unfortunately.

A few images are also freeze frames from a film showing Jelly (ID confirmed) drawing both from concealment and with jacket off. These give us the best view of his holster I have found yet. It appears to me that the trigger guard is exposed but I will wait until I get a chance to enhance the image (or someone does same) before stating that as fact.

The other film referenced on another thread (The Horak Family Collection, no. 11 - Police Target Practice) that purports to show Bryce performing on the range is, in my opinion, actually NOT Bryce. Not even a little bit. :)

One of my favorite images of Jelly is the one showing him sitting on the ground with the folks around him all cracking up, apparently at something he said or did. He was by all accounts a gregarious, decent, and--when necessary--deadly guy. Just the type you want to go out on patrol with.

Best regards,
Mike Conti
 

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I'm sure there is a photo somewhere showing Bryce with his holster.
I have believed it for a long, long time, but still looking. It's the same
as Cirillo. I never found his exact hoster rig, but I think I was able to
zero in on the style.


Which holster of Cirillo's were you interested in?
 
Mike I would sure like to see those photos if you get them enhanced.
The first one looks as though it could have the hammer shield because
it looks as though the black leather goes up higher where the hammer
would be, but not clear enough to come to any definite conclusions.
I posted a photo of my Chisholm's Trail holster on here. Have you
happened to see it? I have been interested in Jelly's holsters for several years, but Al's call the other day did motivate me to get back on the
Quest.
I like Jelly's quote about how to get someone to leave you alone, but
I won't tell it here. I don't need an infraction.
 
Mike I have also recently posted what I believed to be the style of holster that Cirillo used when He was on the Stake out Squad.
 
I'm familiar with that quote and it probably would get you an infraction!

I will get in touch when I get some time to enhance the images. The pic of him sitting on the ground I think clearly shows the trigger guard not covered, as does an image of him drawing from standing position. Do you see it?
 
Bill I guess model 459 means 457 with hammer shield, and of course
CM4 means Combat Magnum with 4" barrel. Nice ensemble.

Mike I do think I see the trigger guard in the photo where he is
sitting. Those are the best images I have seen. I hope the
enhancments work out well.
 
Here is a quick a dirty up sizing a lightning of the photo. The trigger guard and trigger are clearly visible as is the grip adapter. Grips almost look like stag and not standard checkered S&W grips. I don't see a jacket protection flap you can barely make out the outline of parts of the top of the holster.

Hope that helps

162726833.ukTu9PtZ.Jellyholster8.jpg
 
Yes Bill I see the trigger guard and I see the hammer, but not sure if
the hammer has a spur or if it was removed. The holster needs to be
much clearer to tell, but it kinda looks like just your basic Threepersons.

Speedgunner: Jelly beans? Yeah right.
 
Hello All:

I imagine this renewed search was initiated by Alan Soellner of Chisholm's Trail? I had a conversation with him the other day about Jelly's holster (he produces excellent leather gear and is working on producing a replica of Jelly's holster), and he told me he was going to reach out to a few folks to see if any more info was available.

Anyway, I have been digging through my files and came up with a few photos. I will post them here and hope they are of some help. Most of the images are old and a bit grainy unfortunately.

A few images are also freeze frames from a film showing Jelly (ID confirmed) drawing both from concealment and with jacket off. These give us the best view of his holster I have found yet. It appears to me that the trigger guard is exposed but I will wait until I get a chance to enhance the image (or someone does same) before stating that as fact.

The other film referenced on another thread (The Horak Family Collection, no. 11 - Police Target Practice) that purports to show Bryce performing on the range is, in my opinion, actually NOT Bryce. Not even a little bit. :)

One of my favorite images of Jelly is the one showing him sitting on the ground with the folks around him all cracking up, apparently at something he said or did. He was by all accounts a gregarious, decent, and--when necessary--deadly guy. Just the type you want to go out on patrol with.

Best regards,
Mike Conti

Mike, your pics are a significant contribution! It does appear that the enhanced, closeup pic of Mr Bryce seated, shows what we now know as a Threepersons, without hammer guard. The Myres connection would seem to be likely, given what we know about the FBI and Myres and Bryce's connections during that time in history.

No covered trigger guard, for sure; not even on the revolver itself! Perhaps a Fitz. The pics and the legend suggest a serious gunman in an era where that was valued; beginning in 1935 when the Bureau began issuing pistols including the Super 38. We do know, thanks to turnerriver, that the FBI specified Heiser or equal then; so for that reason it could be a Heiser 457. The 459, with hammer guard, appeared much later, circa 1950, as turnerriver probably gets tired of reiterating.
 
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