Just curious about this

[G.T. Smith]

I live in Missouri and have a CCW permit and I was wondering about something. The other night I stopped by a friends house for a while and another friend of mine was getting ready to leave. To get to his house he would have to drive on a state highway,(as opposed to dirt roads), and he was pretty drunk, happy, but staggering pretty good. I thought about driving him home in his car, (which smelled like whiskey), and have my Son come get me and take me back. There were open containers everywhere in his ride and I wasn't about to clean his car out for him. Luckily another guy stopped by and took him home. I was just wondering that if I had driven him home and got stopped if I could get in trouble for having a loaded firearm in his car full of booze even though I had not been drinking anything alcoholic. Nor does the car or booze belong to me either.
I never drink anything while carrying and just didn't want to take a chance, but no way was I going to let that **** drive a car on a busy road.
Peace,
gordon

 

[OFT II]

Gordon, you did a good turn for a friend and possibly some other driver. I believe that if you had been stopped 99 out of 100 cops would have understood the circumstances. But then, you never know about the other one. I would have done the same for someone. And I have been on both sides of the fence when younger. Now my life of wine, women and song is beer, momma and the tv set.

 

[K1500]

I believe open container laws are just that. You would be in violation of the law. Even if you did not have your gun with you, you would still be in violation of the law. This is why hanging around with dingbats is not a good idea. They are always looking for ways to get you in trouble.

 

[jlrhiner]

In that situation, I would have secured my firearm in his trunk and took him home. I do not drink, and they would be hard pressed to prove DUI, but I don't know how they would handle the open container. I would probably get a ticket and present the circumstances to the judge.

 

[Ltlbear]

In a lot of states and the ones I live around, open container is go straight to jail. Does not matter if you were drinking at the time or not.
Thanks for keeping him off the road. It usually does not end well.

 

[maddog909]

I think you'd be better off just letting the guy sleep it off. Take his keys away, tie him up if you have to but don't get into his car full of open bottles and drive it anywhere.

 

[cshoff]

I live in Missouri and have a CCW permit and I was wondering about something. The other night I stopped by a friends house for a while and another friend of mine was getting ready to leave. To get to his house he would have to drive on a state highway,(as opposed to dirt roads), and he was pretty drunk, happy, but staggering pretty good. I thought about driving him home in his car, (which smelled like whiskey), and have my Son come get me and take me back. There were open containers everywhere in his ride and I wasn't about to clean his car out for him. Luckily another guy stopped by and took him home. I was just wondering that if I had driven him home and got stopped if I could get in trouble for having a loaded firearm in his car full of booze even though I had not been drinking anything alcoholic. Nor does the car or booze belong to me either.
I never drink anything while carrying and just didn't want to take a chance, but no way was I going to let that **** drive a car on a busy road.
Peace,
gordon

Missouri does not have an "open container" law under state statute, however, there are some local jurisdictions within the state that do regulate "open containers" within their jurisdiction. In the situation you described above, you would have been perfectly legal provided that the local jurisdiction you were in does not restrict/prohibit open containers in the vehicle.

In addition, possession of a firearm while also in possession of alcohol is not unlawful in Missouri, and in fact, simple possession of a firearm while intoxicated is not unlawful either, though operating a motor vehicle while intoxicated IS illegal anywhere in the state.

 

[Aticus]

cshoff, are you LEO or an attorney? You're from central Missouri, are you by chance a member of the State Legislature? Just curious about your qualifications to give us legal advice.

Pecos

Admins, if I'm over stepping the bounds here just blow this away.

 

[rilkil23]

I'm all about not letting him drive but I think paying for a taxi ride would have been a better idea than driving him home. I don't drink alcohol and would hate to be in front of a judge for a violation of any kind. My life goal is to stay out of a court house no matter what. I appreciate you wanting to do the right thing but not at your own expense. Tough call.

 

[cshoff]

cshoff, are you LEO or an attorney? You're from central Missouri, are you by chance a member of the State Legislature? Just curious about your qualifications to give us legal advice.

Pecos

Admins, if I'm over stepping the bounds here just blow this away.

I am a state-authorized Missouri CCW instructor and as a part of the state mandated CCW training, I am REQUIRED by the state to teach state laws that relate to firearms and use of force. I am not an attorney, nor do I give legal advice. I only speak in reference to the actual law and established case law, not in legal opinion or conjecture.

ETA - As to the laws mentioned above, you do not have to take my word for it (nor should you). You can find the entire listing of Missouri Revised Statutes from the official source at this link: http://www.moga.mo.gov/STATUTES/STATUTES.HTM

 

[Aticus]

I am a state-authorized Missouri CCW instructor and as a part of the state mandated CCW training, I am REQUIRED by the state to teach state laws that relate to firearms and use of force. I am not an attorney, nor do I give legal advice. I only speak in reference to the actual law and established case law, not in legal opinion or conjecture.

ETA - As to the laws mentioned above, you do not have to take my word for it (nor should you). You can find the entire listing of Missouri Revised Statutes from the official source at this link: MISSOURI REVISED STATUTES

Thanks, now I know who I'm dealing with. I guess you're interpreting the law differently than the LEO Sargent I know. Won't bug you any more. By the way doesn't any person or group have the right to restrict the entrance of firearms into their premises? By the bye I know that bringing a firearm into a restricted area is. of itself, not a criminal offense.

Pecos

 

[doby]

Must have missed something but how does a firearm in a restricted area relate to taking a friend home, that is drunk, driving their car? The driver sober, with CCW and gun on his/her person? Pardon my curiosity.

 

[arjay]

Open container laws.

 

[cshoff]

Thanks, now I know who I'm dealing with. I guess you're interpreting the law differently than the LEO Sargent I know. Won't bug you any more. By the way doesn't any person or group have the right to restrict the entrance of firearms into their premises? By the bye I know that bringing a firearm into a restricted area is. of itself, not a criminal offense.

Pecos

I'm not sure how your friend is interpreting the law differently, but I would be curious to know.

As to your question regarding private property owners, yes, any private property in Missouri retains the right to restrict who may enter his/her property, and with what. Public areas are a bit different and come under very tight statutory controls.

 

[Aticus]

Must have missed something but how does a firearm in a restricted area relate to taking a friend home, that is drunk, driving their car? The driver sober, with CCW and gun on his/her person? Pardon my curiosity.

Sorry guy, I drifted off the thread there. I was simply asking what cshof's qualifications were to post some of the law he was quoting here and in another thread. My opinion on the OP was the guy did the right thing. Legal or not the hasle he could have gotten into just ain't worth the effort. I of course. am not an attorney nor do I play one on TV nor did I stay in some silly hotel last night.

Pecos

 

[GunsOfMassEffect]

I live in Missouri and have a CCW permit and I was wondering about something. The other night I stopped by a friends house for a while and another friend of mine was getting ready to leave. To get to his house he would have to drive on a state highway,(as opposed to dirt roads), and he was pretty drunk, happy, but staggering pretty good. I thought about driving him home in his car, (which smelled like whiskey), and have my Son come get me and take me back. There were open containers everywhere in his ride and I wasn't about to clean his car out for him. Luckily another guy stopped by and took him home. I was just wondering that if I had driven him home and got stopped if I could get in trouble for having a loaded firearm in his car full of booze even though I had not been drinking anything alcoholic. Nor does the car or booze belong to me either.
I never drink anything while carrying and just didn't want to take a chance, but no way was I going to let that **** drive a car on a busy road.
Peace,
gordon

No you wouldn't neccessarily get into any trouble with an explanation, but a cop coming on scene seeing all that in which you described might open up a can of headache for you, being a cop myself just my opinion, most likely you would have been removed from the vehicle I hope if you did get pulled over, I would annouce that I am carrying a weapon and that you're a permit holder then just follow the officers instructions, if they thought you were intoxicated they would have administerd a sobriety test simple. P.S hope this helps in the near future.

 

[cshoff]

Sorry guy, I drifted off the thread there. I was simply asking what cshof's qualifications were to post some of the law he was quoting here and in another thread. My opinion on the OP was the guy did the right thing. Legal or not the hasle he could have gotten into just ain't worth the effort. I of course. am not an attorney nor do I play one on TV nor did I stay in some silly hotel last night.

Pecos

I'm not really sure where the "hassle" would have come from, though, in most of the state. The fact is, we don't have a state "open container" law here in Missouri, and only a few jurisdictions have any local ordinances restricting open containers, so it's already highly unlikely the OP would have been in one of those areas to begin with. State law simply prohibits "the consumption of alcoholic beverages in a moving motor vehicle" (RSMO 571.017) - if you are not actively "consuming" while the vehicle is "moving" on a "highway" (as defined by statute), you are not in violation. In fact, it is perfectly legal even for the operator of the vehicle to "consume" once the vehicle comes to a complete stop unless local ordinance prohibits it.

Of course, none of that provides an exemption to our "Driving while intoxicated" statute (RSMO 577.010). If you are actually "intoxicated" (under the influence of alcohol, a controlled substance, or drug, or any combination thereof - as defined by RSMO 577.001), it is unlawful. Period. Whether there are any open containers present or not.

As to the possession of the firearm, even if a person is "intoxicated", under RSMO 571.030.1.(5), it is not unlawful to possess the firearm while intoxicated unless said person "handles or otherwise uses such firearm or projectile weapon in either a negligent or unlawful manner or discharges such firearm or projectile weapon unless acting in self-defense". And again, none of that provides an exemption to our "Driving while intoxicated" statute (RSMO 577.010). Additionally, under RSMO 21.750, Missouri firearms laws have been preempted by the state, so no local jurisdiction in the state can make or enforce a local ordinance to the contrary of this statute.

The bottom line is this, it is not unlawful under state OR local laws to possess a firearm while also being in possession of alcohol. Additionally, it is not unlawful under state law to operate a motor vehicle in Missouri while open containers are present. So as long as a person possessed a valid drivers license, and as long as the vehicle was properly licensed and insured, the OP would have been entirely legal to drive the drunk guy home in most areas of the state. No "hassle" about it one way or the other. *BUT*, a person must keep in mind that there are a few local jurisdictions that prohibit open containers, so while they are far and few between, they do exist and it is wise to know your local laws before getting behind the wheel with open containers present.

Unless your LEO Sergeant friend happens to work in a jurisdiction where they have a local open container ordinance, I'm not really sure how he could have a different interpretation of these laws. There is no ambiguity in the way they are written.

 

[doby]

Sorry guy, I drifted off the thread there. I was simply asking what cshof's qualifications were to post some of the law he was quoting here and in another thread. My opinion on the OP was the guy did the right thing. Legal or not the hasle he could have gotten into just ain't worth the effort. I of course. am not an attorney nor do I play one on TV nor did I stay in some silly hotel last night.

Pecos

Thank you for your honesty.

 

[doby]

Unless your LEO Sergeant friend happens to work in a jurisdiction where they have a local open container ordinance, I'm not really sure how he could have a different interpretation of these laws. There is no ambiguity in the way they are written.
__________________Believe it or not but sometimes they do have their own interpretation of the law, especially in rural areas. Have seen too many "Storm Troopers" (for a lack of a better description) hide behind the badge, just for the feeling of power. Not all but there are a few among the LEO.

 

[cshoff]

Unless your LEO Sergeant friend happens to work in a jurisdiction where they have a local open container ordinance, I'm not really sure how he could have a different interpretation of these laws. There is no ambiguity in the way they are written.
__________________Believe it or not but sometimes they do have their own interpretation of the law, especially in rural areas. Have seen too many "Storm Troopers" (for a lack of a better description) hide behind the badge, just for the feeling of power. Not all but there are a few among the LEO.

I was taking the liberty of assuming that Pecos Bill's friend was an upstanding and professional officer.