K-22 sights VERY high

[pokute]

I have a near mint 1948 K-22 that shoots about 4 inches high at 25 yards with the sight at the lowest click. The site adjustment functions correctly, but it just seems to be way off vertically. I am starting to think this is why the gun is in such good condition. Any ideas?

Follow-up (copied here from page 3):

Well, thanks to JSR III's suggestion, which was to take the rear sight assembly off and see what was hanging it up, I scrubbed a lot of rust out (using Hoppes #9 and a bronze receiver brush) and put it back together. Today at the range the gun's POI is 4 inches lower at the lowest "click" on the sight. It was quite a surprise to see how much rust and debris had settled into the space under the rear sight ramp. I was also surprised to find that the little bump under the rear sight that I thought was a travel-stop was a chunk of dirt!! Cleaning under the rear sight ramp will now be a yearly maintenance item.

 

[arjay]

Have you tried any of the hyper velocity ammo in it yet?

 

[arjay]

Should have asked at what distance first

 

[pokute]

I was using CCI Mini-Mag solid point while sighting it in, because that's what I use in my other 22's, and I feel like I know how it behaves from 25 to 100 yards. Note that my original post said 25 yards.

I don't really have any interest in hyper-velocity ammo. I use the Mini-Mag ammo because it's the cheapest high-quality round I have found.

 

[pokute]

Decades ago my uncle was having trouble with his Model 29. He asked me to shoot it to verify it wasn't him.
I shot it a few times and it seemed odd to me. I slowed down a bit and took notice that the screw holding the rear sight assembly was loose and the rear sight was not properly secured to the frame.
After I secured the screw all was well.

Just saying...

Good luck,

bdGreen

I had read reports in forums of folks with improperly assembled or damaged sights, so the first thing I did was to verify that the sight was not damaged and in proper working order. I just verified again that the attachment screw is tight, and that the sight appears to be as it should.

 

[arjay]

If it's doing it off of a bench with different shooters I'd look for a shorter rear sight blade or just shoot it enough so you know where to hold.

 

[sjmjax]

I'll repeat bdGreen's advice.

I had a used revolver that also seemed to shoot very high with the sight cranked down. Same problem - the rear sight screw was very loose. Tightened it up and groups came down to were they belonged.

May not be your problem but worth checking.

 

[DCWilson]

Is there any evidence that the front sight has been replaced or ground down? Assuming that ammunition choice is not in play, a crude estimate suggests that the front sight is about .04" too low for a rear notch that is bottomed out. That might mean the front sight is .06-.07" too low for a rear blade that is somewhere in the middle of its vertical range.

If others shoot your gun and get the same results, something needs to be adjusted on the gun. If POI is the same as POA for others, there may be some adjustment necessary in the way you grasp the gun while shooting.

I have this issue with a couple of prewar .32 Regulation Police target revolvers. I'm pretty sure the issue is the way I hold the guns, not a funny sight or bent barrel.

 

[pokute]

The front sight looks factory original and perfect. The gun is 95+, and the screws all appear untouched, so I doubt anybody has messed with it:

http://www.slug.org/~phil//revolvers/k22_right-side.jpg

I'll have somebody else try shooting with it. I have four revolvers, three of them are old Smiths, and I've never had any problem like this before. Guess I'll take it to the gunsmith if it shoots high for somebody else.

 

[H Richard]

What is the amount the rear sight "blade" extends above the rear sight assembly? Unfortunately I do not have that vintage to measure to tell you what it should. I am thinking that sometime in the past 60+ years someone has replaced the blade with an incorrect height one. Hopefully someone seeing this will tell you the measurement which you can compare to your gun. I do own a Mod 19 2 1/2" which had an incorrect blade in it from the factory, so it can happen. I did just look on a chart I have that shows a 6" K22 should have a .146" blade. That would be the overall height. Screw your sight all the way out to the left and measure the overall height of the blade. My gut feeling is this is too high.

 

[JSR III]

I would try removing the rear sight completely and check for anything that may be holding it up. The blade may be all the way down in the assembly, however, the assembly may not be seated as low as it can be. May not be the case but something is out of whack.

 

[denden]

Interesting thread. I have a 1947 (late I think) serial K10184, and a 1950 which I have not yet had the chance to shoot (maybe tomorrow). So I am interested in what you find. If I can measure/compare anything let me know. Dennis

 

[pokute]

I measured the sight blade and it's 0.108, so it's probably the 0.106 blade. I decided to remove the entire rear sight assembly and discovered that there is rust under the ramp and around the rear, with one flake of rust falling out that was 0.020!! I'm going to clean everything up and see where that gets me. Terrible to see an otherwise near-mint gun with a mess like that hiding between parts.

Follow-up:

I got it all cleaned out. There was at least 0.050 rust near the rear end of the ramp, and after I cleaned everything up I got one more click out of the adjuster as well (it was running down on rust before). So, I'm expecting good things when I can get to the range... Next weekend, sigh.

 

[Murphy2000]

pokute,

Oddly enough, I'm having the same issue. I'll be breaking the rear sight out of it's channel later this evening and giving everything a good scrubbing.

Hopefully thats all there is to it with mine as well. I won't be able to verify if that's where my problem is until I can get back to the range. But I sure gotta feeling now I'm gonna find what you found, rust.

Murphy2000

 

[pokute]

pokute,

Oddly enough, I'm having the same issue. I'll be breaking the rear sight out of it's channel later this evening and giving everything a good scrubbing.

Hopefully thats all there is to it with mine as well. I won't be able to verify if that's where my problem is until I can get back to the range. But I sure gotta feeling now I'm gonna find what you found, rust.

Murphy2000

I won't know until I get to the range, but at this point I'm betting it was the rust. See the followup to my last message.

 

[pokute]

Interesting thread. I have a 1947 (late I think) serial K10184, and a 1950 which I have not yet had the chance to shoot (maybe tomorrow). So I am interested in what you find. If I can measure/compare anything let me know. Dennis

Gah. I keep saying mine is a 1947, it's a 1948. I have a 1927 HE and I can't keep the dates straight. It would be nice to know what the blade heights are on both your guns.

 

[denden]

I just checked the 1950 - blade height is .126"

 

[denden]

The 1947 (very late or maybe early '48) measures .100". The front sight on the '50 is quite a bit taller.

 

[Murphy2000]

Now for the really interesting part.

I have two K-22's, both 1948's. Serial #'s 709XX and 709XX, seperated by 27 numbers. Wonder if they were made the same day?

I got out in my shop and removed the sight and cleaned everything. The groove in the receiver, the bottom of the sight..etc. Nothing left un-scrubbed.

After getting it back together I took my other K22 out of the vault and took some measurements. Both guns are identical, sight blades, front sight heights & widths.

My K-22 in the vault has a full turn of adjustment 'UP' currently to put it on at 25 yards. Guess I'll find out tomorrow if things are much better now, or much worse.

On a final note, I even took the grips off of the K-22 that shoots fine and placed them on the one that is shooting high.

Murphy2000

 

[denden]

The front sight on the '50 measured about .028 taller than the '47. This is only .002 taller than the difference in heights of the blades. Probably within the margin of error of my measurements. By the way both sights are screwed all the way down.

 

[Model19man]

I would try a different brand of ammo. Nice K22 BTW.

The front sight looks factory original and perfect. The gun is 95+, and the screws all appear untouched, so I doubt anybody has messed with it:

http://www.slug.org/~phil//revolvers/k22_right-side.jpg

I'll have somebody else try shooting with it. I have four revolvers, three of them are old Smiths, and I've never had any problem like this before. Guess I'll take it to the gunsmith if it shoots high for somebody else.

 

[Murphy2000]

Got to shoot my K22 this evening after work.

Looks like removing the rear sight and scrubbing everything I could reach, it lowered the point of impact. I had the sight screwed completely down to the frame. The good news is I can get along fine with it now.

Forgot to mention my ole eyes ain't had a new prescription in longer than I would like to say. I intend to remedy that in the next week or so. That, and the front sight on the K22 that was shooting high was devoid of ANY blue, it pretty much shined. I blackened the front sight before testing to make double sure I was getting the best sight picture I could.

Hopefully will get a good report back on the original poster's results.

Murphy2000

 

[pokute]

Got to shoot my K22 this evening after work.

Looks like removing the rear sight and scrubbing everything I could reach, it lowered the point of impact. I had the sight screwed completely down to the frame. The good news is I can get along fine with it now.

Forgot to mention my ole eyes ain't had a new prescription in longer than I would like to say. I intend to remedy that in the next week or so. That, and the front sight on the K22 that was shooting high was devoid of ANY blue, it pretty much shined. I blackened the front sight before testing to make double sure I was getting the best sight picture I could.

Hopefully will get a good report back on the original poster's results.

Murphy2000

Glad to hear it did some good for you. I won't be able to get to the range until Sunday. As for the eyes, I bought a Merit Optical Attachment (the little iris thing with the suction cup), and it worked wonders. Now if I could just get rid of the shake in my hands I bet I could shoot like I did 15 years ago...

 

[mososodbob]

I am having similar result of shooting high with my Mod 14 and K-22 (bith 6" bbl). I shoot bullseye and use a center of mass hold sight picture.

Would be OK if I use 6 o'clock or sub-six hold...but I don't. It shoots POA, POI at 50 yds. But when I come back to the short line, 25 yds, it is too high. It hits at the top of the bull, about 9/8 ringish.

How much of a PITA is it to replace the blade? Special tools needed? I'm just a home part swapper and not gunsmith trained.

Bob

 

[bloo]

Not much trouble to replace it. To replace it you must break it first. Screw it all the way to the left until the screw breaks. Install the new blade and screw and nut. There is a tool to peen the end of the screw but you can use a punch to do it. Had to change the blade on a mdl 24 to get poa/poi.


Ted

 

[beagleye]

+1 for different ammo.

It's really worth trying a few brands. CCI mini mag works great for me too, but some of the cheaper bulk brands do just as well in my K22, some not so much. The remington bulk box that they carry at dicks does as well as anything in my K22 but is horrid in my CZ. Federal auto match does well in both but the red federal box from walmart is HORRID in my k22, shoots big groups and high and left from my general POI. All my guns love CCI and Ely.

 

[pokute]

Well, thanks to JSR III's suggestion, which was to take the rear sight assembly off and see what was hanging it up, I scrubbed a lot of rust out (using Hoppes #9 and a bronze receiver brush) and put it back together. Today at the range the gun's POI is 4 inches lower at the lowest "click" on the sight. It was quite a surprise to see how much rust and debris had settled into the space under the rear sight ramp. I was also surprised to find that the little bump under the rear sight that I thought was a travel-stop was a chunk of dirt!! Cleaning under the rear sight ramp will now be a yearly maintenance item.

 

[Murphy2000]

pokute,

Glad you got it shooting the way you want now.

I've bought several old (1940-50's) S&W's over the years. If I see no reason to remove anything for a scrubbing I don't. Then I have seen a few that I wonder how many decades that junk has been in there?

Murphy2000