K frame .357 magnum's

[volgunner]

Thinking of picking up a K frame .357 magnum. I've heard the K frame .357 magnums shouldn't be fed a steady diet of "hot" .357 loads. Is this true, and, if so, what .357 loads will they tolerate on a "steady diet" basis?

Thanks for your input.
Russell

 

[Neumann]

In K-frame magnums, the barrel is relieved for clearance with the crane (gas ring). This weakens the forcing cone, which can eventually split. Fast, light bullets create more stress on the forcing cone than heavier ones. The usual caveat is to avoid magnum loads with 125 grain or lighter bullets.

If you anticipate a steady diet of magnum loads, you are better off with with N frame, or at least L frame revolvers.

 

[cjtraining]

M66's

Here are two M66 for your consideration. Others in the forum will give their opinion's of what you should shoot. I shoot .38's or .38+p and rarely shoot .357 ammo.

 

[fyimo]

There was a reason S&W brought out the L frame and was because too many people were shooting light 357 magnum bullets at high velocity and they were experiencing the problems discribed above.

 

[MajorD]

most everyone shoots 38 specials on the range anyway- absolutely no need to abuse the gun or your hand with magnums- for carry and maybe occaisional test fire- under which conditions the gun will last forever-fine.
if you don't want the fouling build up in the cylinder from 38's which can make chambering magnums difficult- assemble low end 357 reloads at 1000-1100 feet per second velocity range. gun will last a very very long time at that power level.

 

[AveragEd]

My first handgun was a 1974-vintage Model 19 and like most young new shooters, I fed it all the hot loads I could. It wasn't long before empty cases were hard to extract and when it became painful to my hand, I used a mallet and brass drift. I sent the gun back to Smith & Wesson and they replaced the cylinder, saying that the chambers were no longer round.

Things were just fine for a few months but the sticky extraction started again. I returned it to S&W again and when it came back that time, a note was included saying that they had replaced the cylinder under warranty for the last time, so lay off the hot loads. I relegated the gun to target competition use with .38 Special loads and five years later, case extraction was still butter-smooth.

Today, I have quite a few K-frame magnums but the hottest load they see is an occasional .38 Special +P load. Lots of heavy .357 Magnum loads is what L-frames are for and I use a 5" Model 629-4 Classic DX for hunting, so I have no need to abuse my Model 19s and 66s.

K-frames are sweet handguns that just feel "right" in your hand but they will not tolerate a lot of high-velocity fodder.

Ed

 

[CajunBass]

I would like to have the opportunity to shoot one enough to worry about it.

 

[lhump1961]

I would like to have the opportunity to shoot one enough to worry about it.

I shoot k frames a lot and used to shoot about half .357 loads but nothing lighter than 158gr. More and more I shoot 38+P now-a-days only because of the recoil. I have had my 66-1 4" since about 1990 and have many years of various 38, 38+P and .357 158gr with no problems whatsoever. Forcing cone looks great, timing never an issue and locks up fine. I have heard these weakness stories for a long time and although I'm sure there is some truth in it, I believe that as long as you stay with what the gun was designed for and care for it properly then you are good to go.

I have not had any problems with any of my K's nor have I known anyone with a problem. Given that there were so many of these models made and so many left out there still shooting after all these years I can only conclude that the gun is sound. I will concede that there had to have been some that failed under normal use (you can say that about all things mechanical) but I would wager that the vast majority of the failures were due to abuse. Just my .02.

 

[Warren Sear]

Full powered 125 grain 357 Magnum loads have earned the reputation as the ones to avoid. Heavier or lighter bullets are not as bad. I could join in on the speculation as to the reason why, but the bottom line is to avoid the hot 125 grain loads. I know from personal experience that they will ruin a Model 19.

 

[TDC]

What is glaringly apparent in many threads like this a rational definition of what a "hot load" is.

Both the K frame .357's and the N frame .44 Mags have suffered from the term "hot loads." That term leaves readers assuming that all the ammo being discussed is always factory produced and the custom nature of the load not well defined to them.

Most of the problem for both calibers reflects back on many hand loaders "pushing the envelope" in their search for maximum velocity and performance. Then reporting how the gun didn't perform well with their unidentified and undefined ammo.

Neither the K frame 357's or the N frame earlier 44 mags were designed or capable of acting as "experimental guns" to test the optimum pressures of hot custom loads. They do, however, perform dependably and well with traditional factory loaded ammo.

Hand loaders, and I am one, have a tendency to load to the limit, seeking such pressure signs as flattened primers and hard to extract cases as a load limit indicator. They don't consider the design of the gun in the equation, often trying to exceed performance far beyond what is considered normal factory ammo load limits.

Often we read posts claiming how weak the K frame and N frames are when used with normal magnum ammo. That is simply not true, nor are these guns as delicate as the criticisms they often endure would imply.

Yes - the K frames have a problem digesting steady hot 125 grain bullets and will shoot loose with a steady diet of thousands of magnum loads . Yes - the early N frame 44 Mags can be shot loose with a constant pounding of hot loaded 260 to 300 grain bullets. From my experience that happens most frequently with hand-loaded ammo made by the guns owner pushing it to the pressure limit.

I believe many people, especially newbies, are left with the impression the magnum K and N frames are weak guns that fall apart after a hundred rounds of so.... It just ain't so.....

JMHO

 

[roaddog28]

Thinking of picking up a K frame .357 magnum. I've heard the K frame .357 magnums shouldn't be fed a steady diet of "hot" .357 loads. Is this true, and, if so, what .357 loads will they tolerate on a "steady diet" basis?

Thanks for your input.
Russell

I would recommend a K frame magnum to anybody. Too me they are the best handling,point the best and have the best stock double action trigger I have ever handled. I have four. Two model 19s a model 13 and a model 66. While I agree with most that for every day shooting 38 specials are great. They won't hurt the K frame. Personally when I go to the range I use CCI blazer 158 gr 357 magnum hollow points. There velocity is around 1150 fps. They will not hurt a K frame magnum.
Of all my S&W revolvers I like my K frame magnums the best. A persons collection is not complete without at least one K frame magnum.

The talk about shooting 125 gr full power magnums at high velocities can erode a forcing cone and cause a cracked forcing cone. The K frame because of the way the forcing cone is designed might wear and split sooner. But I have see pictures of other revolvers like a Ruger GP100 that have a eroded forcing cone and have split. Shooting a light grain high velocity round like the 125 gr is hard on any revolver.

I have a good description on what this round does to a forcing cone.

1: It accelerates faster in the cylinder, striking the forcing cone MUCH harder than the 158gr bullet.
2: The shorter 125gr bullet leaves the case before a 158gr bullet, causing more unburned powder to fly forward and combust in the throat and barrel. This causes flamecutting on the topstrap and peening of the forcing cone.
3: The recoil impulse of the 125gr loads are much sharper and severe than a comparable 158gr load, so it batters the gun HARD.

Shooting high round counts will erode the forcing cone. A person can shoot a occasional box of in a K frame but I would not shoot more than two boxes a year.

Anyway this should shed some light.
Regards,
Howard

 

[Decker]

For factory loads if you want to shoot .357 at the range, stay with 158gr bullets.

Better yet, do as I do and get into the wonderful hobby of reloading.
I've got a 19 and two 66's and they are a ton of fun for range blasting. But I like to baby them, so while I may stoke them with magnum 125gr for SD carry, all my range time with them is using my own reloaded .357 brass where I use the low end of the load tables which I might arbitrarily assume is about the same as a "+P" .38Spl, a load that the K-frames shoot with little recoil and really good accuracy.

A Rockchucker and basic accessories, and you're in the reloading hobby, and your K-frames will last forever.

 

[stevieboy]

I love firing .357s. It's by far my favorite round. But, I also respect the round's power. In some gun/grip configurations it's just too much for me. Possibly, too much for the gun, as well.

I never fire anything more powerful than .38+P from my 19-3 2 1/2". The noise, the recoil, the muzzle flip generated by magnum rounds, and the brilliant flash that is generated by firing magnums from a short barrel all are reasons why I just don't see the benefit of firing magnums from that gun.

When I want to shoot magnums (often) I shoot them from my Model 27-3 4". Firing magnums from that gun is a delight. The recoil is quite manageable and the gun just loves magnum rounds.

 

[TDC]

For factory loads if you want to shoot .357 at the range, stay with 158gr bullets.

Better yet, do as I do and get into the wonderful hobby of reloading.
I've got a 19 and two 66's and they are a ton of fun for range blasting. But I like to baby them, so while I may stoke them with magnum 125gr for SD carry, all my range time with them is using my own reloaded .357 brass where I use the low end of the load tables which I might arbitrarily assume is about the same as a "+P" .38Spl, a load that the K-frames shoot with little recoil and really good accuracy.

A Rockchucker and basic accessories, and you're in the reloading hobby, and your K-frames will last forever.

Good post, Decker...

Handloading is the solution to quality ammo, dependable ammo, custom tailored to the gun ammo, more accurate ammo and much, much lower cost ammo that can pay for the needed equipment utilizing the saving from just a few boxes...

 

[Ashlander]

I feel much better about my 4 K-frames now. TDC's explanation of the propensity of hand loaders to push engineering limits rang very true.

 

[ColbyBruce]

How about the 180 grain .357 magnum loads, will they shake, rattle, and roll a K frame apart if used sparingly?

 

[ScottJ]

if you don't want the fouling build up in the cylinder from 38's which can make chambering magnums difficult- assemble low end 357 reloads at 1000-1100 feet per second velocity range. gun will last a very very long time at that power level.

This is my approach.

I owned my 66 for years and never heard of the issue with screamer magnums. If I had to guess mine has shot perhaps 300 of those at most over the years.

After I became a member here and started shooting the 66 more I learned of the issues. I arrived at a 140 grain cast lead load that is stout enough to know it's a magnum but not full snort. Since I started shooting IDPA I've run perhaps 500 of this loading through it with no issues at all.

 

[Pointblank2U]

If you want to shoot magnums in your K-frame the answer is to use medium-powered loads. These would include the Remington Golder Saber 125gr, Speer Gold Dot 135gr Short Barrel load and Corbon's DPX 125gr. None of these will beat up your gun and they are highly effective.

 

[BUFF]

I carried one or another 6 inch Model 66 at work for 10 years, 1981 to 1991. For 7 or 8 years, I carried it with Federal brand 125 grain JHP .357 ammunition. I practiced a fair amount, using both the factory ammo and a handload that seemed to duplicate it, using 2400 and then W-296 powder. The most shot of the 2 guns has at least 5,000 rounds of Magnums and that many .38's through it. It is a bit looser than the other one but still within factory specs for barrel/cylinder gap, headspace and endshake. It hasn't needed any repairs.

I also have shot a fair number of 125 grainers through my 3 and 4 inch Model 66's. They are fine.

I had a first year Colt Python that I finally shot. The forcing cone cracked sometime during the first 2 boxes of Federal 158 grain Magnums! That ammo feels much more mild than their 125 grain load.

Will you break your K frame Magnum shooting 125's in it? Maybe. Maybe but probably not, unless your ammunition is stoked to higher than industry standards.

You pays yer penny and you takes yer choice.

 

[Neumann]

What is glaringly apparent in many threads like this a rational definition of what a "hot load" is.


An "hot load" is one loaded to maximum safe pressure, about 38,500 psi for .357 magnum. That will push a "light" 125 grain bullet about 30% faster than a 158 grain bullet. A faster bullet will impart more stress to the forcing cone than a slower one, regardless of weight. Distension of the cylinder is mostly a function of pressure.

A disproportionate number of K-framed .357s suffered from cracked forcing cones and frames at the barrel threads. That's why Smith designed the L frame and no longer bores K frames for .357. Not everyone who smokes will get cancer, but that doesn't make smoking a good idea.