K22 Transitional?

[Retired W4]

I have what I believe is a K22 Masterpiece (Postwar, 3rd model)-"Pre-17", however there are a few features that make me wonder if it was a special order gun, as these features depart from the SCSW. Sn: K 2837xx puts it at about 1956. It is a 4 screw frame with 10 groove fore and back straps. It has a target hammer (.501") and target trigger (.505") with adjustable trigger stop. The serial number appears on the butt of the gun, but not on the barrel flat, cylinder face, behind the extractor star, or yoke. The 6", non tapered barrel has a full length serrated rib and a .125 (1/10") Patridge front sight. The stocks are numbered, but not to the gun. The case colors on the TH and TT are absolutely gorgeous. I have cleaned the gun up somewhat since these pictures were taken.

Was this a special order gun, or was S&W just doing their thing? It may be a transitional piece, as some of these features appear on the Model 17. It does not have the model number on the frame.

 

[DCWilson]

Yes, it's a Pre-17 -- and a nice one, too. The target hammer and trigger were order options, so they may not be standard but are definitely legitimate. This is about the time that serial numbers ceased to be stamped on components other than the frame, so don't worry about that. Too bad you don't have match-numbered stocks, but a lot of guns from the '40s and '50s don't.

All in all, just another run-of-the-mill excellent K-22 Masterpiece. Enjoy it!

 

[sceva]

Beautiful.

By the way, a .125 front sight is a 1/8" (normal) sight not a 1/10"

 

[Retired W4]

Thank you for the comments, and the math lesson from my fellow OGCA member. Let's see, 1/10... .10, hmmm. OK, I get it.

 

[Göring's S&W]

I don't see many adjustable trigger stops on these so I think that sets this off some. As for the grips, AFAIK, all of them were SN'd to the gun originally, but as time passed, things happened, and many do not today. Any grip type that reveals the forestrap and backstrap usually is SN'd to the gun because they hand fit them BEFORE final finish was applied, and then the grips and gun were re-united at the end of the manufacturing process. Wrap around target stocks are rarely numbered since they are much easier to fit to a gun.

 

[handejector]

I don't see many adjustable trigger stops on these so I think that sets this off some.

The trigger stop is found on all of them from 1946 well into the 70's I think, maybe later.

This is a normal, early 4 screw with TT and TH.

 

[Göring's S&W]

The trigger stop is found on all of them from 1946 well into the 70's I think, maybe later.

This is a normal, early 4 screw with TT and TH.

Wow. You learn something new everyday. I guess I over looked the trigger stop on these many times or perhaps I see more that have standard trigger and hammer - because a std trigger does not have the stop?!?!?!

 

[wheelgun610]

Wow. You learn something new everyday. I guess I over looked the trigger stop on these many times or perhaps I see more that have standard trigger and hammer - because a std trigger does not have the stop?!?!?!

Trigger stops were actually standard on all Masterpiece models during that time span - regardless of which type of hammer and trigger they were originally supplied with.

Mark

 

[Retired W4]

Why?

While trying to understand why this gun had other than the original grips, I came up with this theory, and it is just a theory. With all the target this and target that, the gun may have left the factory with Target stocks. The owner didn't like them so they were replaced with Magnas from another gun. Why else would a gun in this condition NEED another set of grips? Just a theory. The stocks on it now are #242643, which is pretty close to the gun's # of 283xxx.

Could the K22 be had from the factory with Target stocks?

 

[VM]

Could the K22 be had from the factory with Target stocks?

Yes - this 4 screw did

 

[Göring's S&W]

Trigger stops were actually standard on all Masterpiece models during that time span - regardless of which type of hammer and trigger they were originally supplied with.

Mark

I meant to say "adjustable trigger stop" - so all of them had an adjustable trigger stop?

 

[fat tom]

As for the grips, AFAIK, all of them were SN'd to the gun originally,

Not ALL of them. I've learned never to use absolutes when it comes to S&W. I recently sold this one to a fellow forum member. There were no numbers on the grips at all. I have no reason to believe that they were not shipped with the gun originally.

f.t.

 

[crsides]

I have an early pre 18 K106xxx with high horn magnas with no numbers at all. The balance of the gun is like new in the box, so doubt the stocks were switched.

 

[handejector]

Not ALL of them. I've learned never to use absolutes when it comes to S&W. I recently sold this one to a fellow forum member. There were no numbers on the grips at all. I have no reason to believe that they were not shipped with the gun originally.

f.t.

f.t.-
I don't believe they shipped on that gun because the sholders are so rounded. They appear to be a later style than the gun.
I suppose it is possible that its grips could have been damaged and replaced before shipping, but more likely the same happened AFTER shipping.

I have an early pre 18 K106xxx with high horn magnas with no numbers at all. The balance of the gun is like new in the box, so doubt the stocks were switched.

There are many reasons grips get switched. I've seen many accumulators buy new guns and immediately install Target grips, and put the gun in the safe.
Sometimes, I've bought guns with Target grips and asked the orig owner if he still had the orig grips, and been told "No, I put them on another gun to sell it, and kept those Targets".
A couple of years ago, I bought the S&W accumulation from a guy. 45 guns from the 60's and 70's. 38 revolvers. Around 30-32 of the revolvers were unfired in the orig boxes, but almost every gun was wearing stag or Target grips whether they came with them or not. When delivered, he brought me a paper grocery bag containing all the grips he could find. I was able to pair most of the guns with their orig grips, but I wound up with 4 or 5 guns that were totally NEW, in the orig boxes, with everything BUT their orig grips.

So, even IF a gun shipped with un-numbered grips because of damage to the numbered pair, that exception is so RARE that it is misleading to make people believe it happened routinely. That only sets them up for the dealers that tell them "All grips weren't numbered...."

 

[fat tom]

f.t.-

I suppose it is possible that its grips could have been damaged and replaced before shipping, but more likely the same happened AFTER shipping.

Lee,where would one go to purchase a pair of un-numbered factory magnas to replace the original damaged ones? Directly to the factory,I suppose? Not likely that a shop or individual would have a pair of un-numbered ones lying around,or would they? And how can you tell how much newer the grips are than the gun,assuming that you don't know when the gun was made?
f.t.

 

[zywina]

VM I aquired a K-22 ,1954-55 vintage with the same configuration as yours, I have been told that the stocks are bought later on, but the estate I got this out of, every gun was original with no alterations, and this gun was 99% cond.! I guess I need to letter it prove that my stocks were from the factory?Dale Z!

 

[Retired W4]

Yes - this 4 screw did

Thanks VM. I figured as much, but it's great to have solid proof as you have provided. Now as I walk by my check book I wonder if it's worth it to find out I don't have the Targets it may have come with. In my case, probably not. BTW great revolver!

 

[handejector]

Lee,where would one go to purchase a pair of un-numbered factory magnas to replace the original damaged ones? Directly to the factory,I suppose? Not likely that a shop or individual would have a pair of un-numbered ones lying around,or would they? And how can you tell how much newer the grips are than the gun,assuming that you don't know when the gun was made?
f.t.

ft,
I saw large gun shops in the 60's that DID stock a pair or two of magnas.
Other sources were-
Factory. Note pics below. You could order a single grip and have it mailed for pennies. Pics from a Pre-Bangor Mod 17 sheet (1960).
Police armorers always kept spare grips.
The military bought many during the Korean war and surplused them after.

"And how can you tell how much newer the grips are than the gun,assuming that you don't know when the gun was made?"
What number range is your gun?
I am guessing your gun is around 50-52, but a five screw no matter what. Most 5 screw K-22's, if not all, have sharp sholdered grips. Yours are rounded.

 

[Hammerdown]

Beautiful.

By the way, a .125 front sight is a 1/8" (normal) sight not a 1/10"

Hello Sceva & Retired W4
The 1/10" Patridge sight was standard on the K-22's until 1951. In 1952 they dropped it and added the 1/8" Blades but the 1/10" was still available if special ordered. Here is a 1947 Transitional K-22 shown in it's correct box with paperwork and sight adjustment tool of Nine rows of Knurling. It has the larger Mushroom shaped Pre-War style extractor end and the barrel has been milled out to accept the larger head upon closing the cylinder. This one shipped in November 1947 with the set of Magna's shown on it that are serial numbered to it. I have since removed them and placed the later made Target stocks on it...