KCPD Pre-War .357 Magnums Purchased During 1939/1940 (Finish Condition - A Survey)
- Thread starter lestert357
- Start date
OP
All of the 250 .357 Magnums in the 9/7/1939 shipment to the KCPD were shipped from the factory with Hump Back hammers as requested in the original order from the KCPD. See post #43 above.
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Terry, thank you. I've owned this revolver for 4 or 5 years now and the fact that my letter didn't say anything about the humpback hammer always puzzled me and made me suspect my gun was somehow not all original.
How would I go about having my letter updated? Is that possible?
BTW, when I got this piece it had a set of awful reproduction service grips that were cracked all the way through on one side. I put a set of Ajax grips on it and I've shot it a couple of times at the range--that's what I like about this gun; I can take it out once in a while and enjoy it.
How would I go about having my letter updated? Is that possible?
BTW, when I got this piece it had a set of awful reproduction service grips that were cracked all the way through on one side. I put a set of Ajax grips on it and I've shot it a couple of times at the range--that's what I like about this gun; I can take it out once in a while and enjoy it.
OP
If you originally requested and purchased the letter you have, I believe Mr. Jinks would update the letter for you. You can contact him at [email protected].
You are also certainly welcome to make a copy of the original KCPD order that I pictured in post #43 above.
OP
60882/NRM - refinished (added per Internet search)
Photo Credits - GunBroker.com - Mountain Man Guns
Photo Credits - GunBroker.com - Mountain Man Guns
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How do you tell that 60882 was refinished?60882/NRM - refinished (added per Internet search)
Photo Credits - GunBroker.com - Mountain Man Guns
And thanks for posting this info!
Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk
OP
Well it was a judgement call in this case because there are no factory rework marks on the gun such as the star on the butt or a date code on the grip strap under the grip. Below is another picture which is a closeup of the trademark. To me the trademark looks washed out in places which is often an indicator of a refinish. Also the cylinder bolt guides and lock up notches do not look as sharp on the edges as I would expect on an original finish gun. I also spoke to the current owner of this gun, who is a firearms dealer, and he told me he thought the gun exhibits an old refinish. I will say that the color of the gun looks good as do most of the other markings, so if the KCPD armorer refinished this gun he did a pretty nice job. Of course the gun has seen significant usage since it was last finished/refinished which is very common for these KCPD Pre-War .357 Magnums as they were in service from 1939/1940 to 1957.
Photo Credit - GunBroker.com - Mountain Man Guns
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OP
For comparison with the picture in post 68 above, here is a closeup of the trademark on my KCPD Reg 5008 which has not been refinished.
OP
60880/NRM - refinished
OP
59707/5125 - refinished
Photo Credits - GunBroker.com - evilbingoman
Photo Credits - oldmcdonald
Photo Credits - GunBroker.com - evilbingoman
Photo Credits - oldmcdonald
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OP
59676/5066 - refinished (barrel now 3.5")
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What's with the cylinder stop?
OP
Richard, I originally hesitated to post this picture in anticipation of your question - which I can't answer. Surprisingly enough the owner tells me that "it still functions well", although it appears to be cutting a deep drag line on the cylinder.
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Certainly very strange! I can't imagine how that could happen!
OP
Looking at the pictures in post# 72 more closely now is generating more questions than answers and this gun is becoming something of a mystery.
Previous information I had on serial number 59676, which I took from an 8-24-2010 post by bettis1 here on the Forum was as follows: SN 59676, Reg. # 5066; 4", Originally blue, now nickel; Humpback hammer; ramp FS; returned to factory on 2-48 and 4-52.
The gun was examined by bettis1 in 2010 at a Dallas, Texas gunshow and was still essentially in its original KCPD configuration except that it was nickel.
The gun pictured in post 72 above was purchased by the current owner at a gun shop in Ada, Oklahoma in 2016. The factory letter with the gun is dated April 2014 and addressed to an individual in Rowlett, Texas. The gun has little in common with an original KCPD configuration. The replaced barrel is 3.5" (instead of the original 4") and as pictured now the "matching" serial number in the barrel shroud is certainly not factory. Also all 250 KCPD Magnums in the shipment with serial number 59676 originally shipped with a Hump Back Hammer, but this gun now has a standard hammer. Additionally, based on further pictures and information received from the owner, the cylinder and yoke have also been replaced. However a picture of the butt serial number from the owner, shown below, looks like a legitimate factory stamp to me as compared to my 59384 which I know is legitimate and also shown below.
The owner of the gun pictured in post #72 told me he sees no evidence of a previous nickel finish. He also sent me a picture of the left side grip strap; the markings in the area where rework dates are stamped have been mostly obliterated so I cannot tell if the rework dates of 2-48 and 4-52 mentioned by bettis1 were ever there.
At this point it appears there are two possibilities: (1) there are two guns with serial number 59676/REG 5066 in existence, or (2) Bubba did extensive work on 59676/REG 5066 between 8-24-2010 and 2016 including replacing the barrel, replacing the cylinder and yoke, replacing the Hump Back Hammer, removing the nickel finish, and doing something unique in the cylinder stop area.
I will provide an update if/when I get further conclusive evidence one way or the other. In the meantime I am going to list the gun twice in my survey to preserve the historical notes but count it only once for statistical purposes.
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Final update on serial number 59676/REG 5066: Dr. Jinks advised that this serial number and registration number were NOT duplicated by the factory. Therefore this gun was reworked again after 2010 and the renickel finish was removed.
Previous information I had on serial number 59676, which I took from an 8-24-2010 post by bettis1 here on the Forum was as follows: SN 59676, Reg. # 5066; 4", Originally blue, now nickel; Humpback hammer; ramp FS; returned to factory on 2-48 and 4-52.
The gun was examined by bettis1 in 2010 at a Dallas, Texas gunshow and was still essentially in its original KCPD configuration except that it was nickel.
The gun pictured in post 72 above was purchased by the current owner at a gun shop in Ada, Oklahoma in 2016. The factory letter with the gun is dated April 2014 and addressed to an individual in Rowlett, Texas. The gun has little in common with an original KCPD configuration. The replaced barrel is 3.5" (instead of the original 4") and as pictured now the "matching" serial number in the barrel shroud is certainly not factory. Also all 250 KCPD Magnums in the shipment with serial number 59676 originally shipped with a Hump Back Hammer, but this gun now has a standard hammer. Additionally, based on further pictures and information received from the owner, the cylinder and yoke have also been replaced. However a picture of the butt serial number from the owner, shown below, looks like a legitimate factory stamp to me as compared to my 59384 which I know is legitimate and also shown below.
The owner of the gun pictured in post #72 told me he sees no evidence of a previous nickel finish. He also sent me a picture of the left side grip strap; the markings in the area where rework dates are stamped have been mostly obliterated so I cannot tell if the rework dates of 2-48 and 4-52 mentioned by bettis1 were ever there.
At this point it appears there are two possibilities: (1) there are two guns with serial number 59676/REG 5066 in existence, or (2) Bubba did extensive work on 59676/REG 5066 between 8-24-2010 and 2016 including replacing the barrel, replacing the cylinder and yoke, replacing the Hump Back Hammer, removing the nickel finish, and doing something unique in the cylinder stop area.
I will provide an update if/when I get further conclusive evidence one way or the other. In the meantime I am going to list the gun twice in my survey to preserve the historical notes but count it only once for statistical purposes.
**********************************************************************************************************
Final update on serial number 59676/REG 5066: Dr. Jinks advised that this serial number and registration number were NOT duplicated by the factory. Therefore this gun was reworked again after 2010 and the renickel finish was removed.
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OP
Wow! Yes it has. Beautiful work. That gun deserves better than thumbnails.......
60927/NRM - refinished/restored
Thank You, I have no idea how to post big pictures.
OP
60907/NRM - refinished (Note: this gun, although refinished, still retains matching Magna grips!)
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