Kimber failure to extract

[John_M52]

I know this has been discussed at length but here we go again.

My friend has a compact Kimber 1911. Not sure what model. two years old and maybe 50 rounds. He can't get it to run so he asked me to take a look.

Ejector is longer than extractor (good). Extractor has considerable spring tension.

Problem is when extracting with rounds in the mags (both mags) the spent case bottom hits the mouth of the next round in the mag and the slide cycles back and the extractor slips past the rim but then the gun jams since the spent case is still partially in the chamber. On the last round the extracted round hits the follower in the mag and pulls loose of the extractor and the slide continues back leaving the spent round partially in the chamber.

I kinda doubt adding more spring pressure is a good fix - I don't think the extractor should be able to crash a spent case past the follower. The edge of the follower is maybe 30 or 40 thousands higher than the bottom rim of the case. Bending the feed lips might help but not with the last round. And I didn't want to bend the lips and the follower on new mags.

I suggested he send call Kimber. Anyone had this happen?

 

[LoboGunLeather]

In my limited experience (about a half-dozen Kimber pistols) their warranty service department is second to none. Contact the company, obtain a return authorization, send the pistol with a detailed explanation of the problem, and you will probably have it back in hand within a week or so. Good people.

 

[Doug M.]

1911s shorter than GM platform are known to be prone to feed way stoppages. There is a lot of stuff going on in a much compressed cycle and period of time.

 

[growr]

My Kimber would not chamber.....sent it in and they had it back working like it is supposed to, 11 days,

They issue a warranty.....use it.

Randy

 

[Alk8944]

Follow Lobo's suggestion! If you don't want to wait then replace the extractor first and see what happens, they're inexpensive. Call kimber or Brownells.

 

[Rock185]

I think he should follow your suggestion. FWIW, I've had several Kimbers. I don't recall a failure to extract or eject with any of them...

 

[.38SuperMan]

I think he should follow your suggestion. FWIW, I've had several Kimbers. I don't recall a failure to extract or eject with any of them...

Same here. I have an Aegis Ultra 9mm and had another Ultra 45 and never had an issue. I have several other Kimbers and never had a problem.

The only issue was a bad magazine that came with my Eclipse Target 38 super. They replaced it with no questions.

 

[stansdds]

If it is still under warranty, I'd definitely send it back for factory service. Fixing it yourself might void the warranty.

When the barrel and slide on a 1911 get real short, they tend to be more prone to reliability issues. Most can be fixed with patience and sometimes replacement parts that are hand fitted.

 

[Kanewpadle]

Make sure he isn’t limp wristing the gun.

Try another high quality magazine such as Wilson or Mec-Gar.

Replace the recoil spring.

These are low cost solutions I would try before sending it back.

 

[John_M52]

Thanks everyone for the thoughtful responses. My buddy called Kimber and they said to send it back. Pretty cool. I have a single Kimber, full size, and haven't had issues with it other than some minor rust specs and it's stainless.

 

[John_M52]

Friend got back his Kimber today - less than 2 weeks. They reported:

Adjusted Extractor
Replaced recoil spring assy
Refinished barrel, reamed chamber, polished feed ramp

Great that they addressed it quickly at no cost but also wondering why a pistol with +/- 50 rounds through it needed so much work?

 

[BB57]

Friend got back his Kimber today - less than 2 weeks. They reported:

Adjusted Extractor
Replaced recoil spring assy
Refinished barrel, reamed chamber, polished feed ramp

Great that they addressed it quickly at no cost but also wondering why a pistol with +/- 50 rounds through it needed so much work?

It’s a shot gun approach. They don’t want to miss anything and have the customer send it back again.

 

[Sevens]

Great that they addressed it quickly at no cost but also wondering why a pistol with +/- 50 rounds through it needed so much work?

It's also a sign of the times of modern manufacturing in the gun industry these days. There is precious little QC and Q&A, and final test and assurance has been outsourced to the end buyer.

 

[BB57]

It's also a sign of the times of modern manufacturing in the gun industry these days. There is precious little QC and Q&A, and final test and assurance has been outsourced to the end buyer.

CNC technology has been a mixed blessing. On the one hand it has resulted in a number of low cost 1911s (RIA, Citadel, etc) that run amazingly well, especially given their cost as you no longer need expert machinists and assemblers to make and assemble parts.

But the same cost cutting model that drives CNC manufacture also drives cost cutting on the QA side of the house.

Kimber’s two tone and stainless models have also been positioned and priced to compete with Springfield and Rugers’s base models, so they most likely don’t get the same QA attention going out the door.

—-

In terms of slide over run time the Commander sized 1911s have a bit less slide over run distance and time than the full size 1911 and spring weight becomes more critical to reliability.

The Officer framed sized 1911s have almost no slide over run distance and the engineering has to be extremely precise to get reliable functioning.

My advice to any new 1911 owner or owner with a new 1911 is don’t mess with it for at least 200 round with any new 1911 and 500 rounds with any tight fitted 1911. Don’t do an “upgrades” during that time. No extra power recoil spring, no Shok buffer, and no new magazine (especially if they don’t know the differences in feed lips and how they work with different bullet types).

 

[Sevens]

In terms of slide over run time the Commander sized 1911s have a bit less slide over run distance and time than the full size 1911 and spring weight becomes more critical to reliability.

The Officer framed sized 1911s have almost no slide over run distance and the engineering has to be extremely precise to get reliable functioning.

Great information.

It’s somewhat relevant here to mention that although the OP says compact and not subcompact, Kimber has a HUGE share of the subcompact 1911 market. WHY is this true? Partially because Kimber has a massive share of the entire 1911 market but it’s also because a lot of gunmakers won’t offer a 3-inch subcompact 1911 pistol.

Bill Wilson/Wilson Combat will not make a true 1911 pistol in .45cal under 4-inch and his shortest (3-1/2) is only available in 9mm. He’s been on the record as saying that the geometry of the design will not reliably support 3-inch length.

Wilson himself won’t accept the reliability of a 3-inch 1911 in .45cal and he will not offer one. That’s the professional opinion of one the finest modern pistolsmiths in history.

Plenty of folks own a Kimber subcompact 1911 pistol and as I know gunowners (snicker), plenty of them will assure that they’ve never experienced a failure in all 20 years and 165 rounds they have ever sent through it (snicker-x2) but a guy that built a legendary reputation since the late 1970’s doesn’t believe one can be built that would meet his standards.

 

[BB57]

Great information.

It’s somewhat relevant here to mention that although the OP says compact and not subcompact, Kimber has a HUGE share of the subcompact 1911 market. WHY is this true? Partially because Kimber has a massive share of the entire 1911 market but it’s also because a lot of gunmakers won’t offer a 3-inch subcompact 1911 pistol.

Bill Wilson/Wilson Combat will not make a true 1911 pistol in .45cal under 4-inch and his shortest (3-1/2) is only available in 9mm. He’s been on the record as saying that the geometry of the design will not reliably support 3-inch length.

Wilson himself won’t accept the reliability of a 3-inch 1911 in .45cal and he will not offer one. That’s the professional opinion of one the finest modern pistolsmiths in history.

Plenty of folks own a Kimber subcompact 1911 pistol and as I know gunowners (snicker), plenty of them will assure that they’ve never experienced a failure in all 20 years and 165 rounds they have ever sent through it (snicker-x2) but a guy that built a legendary reputation since the late 1970’s doesn’t believe one can be built that would meet his standards.

I agree for the most part as 3” 1911 engineering is distinctly different.

However, I bought a Kimber Ultra Carry new in the box at one of the America’s Gun Shows back when I worked in DC and lived in Arlington.

I shot once or twice a week at the NRA head quarters range and my initial sessions with it were not all that impressive with a couple failures to feed with 185 gr Golden Sabers. I wasn’t surprised by that at all. In fact my impression was positive, in that after the first 100 rounds or so, it was generally reliable with both 185 gr and 230 gr plated round nose bullets.

Wanting a cheaper way to judge potential hollow point reliability and not liking the truncated cone shape of the available plated flat noe bullets, I loaded up a couple thousand 185 gr hollow base round nose bullets using the flat seating die punch, which created round nose flat points very close to the Golden Saber profile.

After 500 or so rounds, I found they shot reliably. I again tried both 185 gr and 230 gr Golden Sabers and found that both were reliable (no failures in 200 rounds). I started carrying it and carried it daily for 4 years, while shooting it weekly with my plated RNFPs along with the carry ammo in the magazine, firing at least 57 rounds per session.

I didn’t keep a formal round count, but I figure I shot around 40 weeks per year (taking into account holidays and weeks I was on the road on inspection trips). But that’s just north of an estimated 10,000 rounds, with no more failures than I experienced with full or commander sized 1911s using similar ammo.

I don’t recall any failures after the break in period with the 185 gr golden sabers, and failures with carry ammo would have registered with me. That’s roughly 1100 rounds of 185 gr GS over 4 years with no failures. I won’t claim it’s perfection but it’s awfully close and I had confidence in it as a carry gun and ammo combo.

I religiously changed the recoil spring assembly every 1800 rounds, I stayed with Kimber magazines for carry purposes, cleaned it weekly after each range session, and ran it wet like God and JMB intended.

I still have it and shoot it occasionally but at 10,000 rounds on an aluminum frame it’s no longer my daily carry.

 

[Gunz50]

my ultra tac 45 Kimber had failure to extract from day one with a few different brands of ammo, Kimber said the chamber was at minimum dimensions and I measured the suspect ammo, all of them were at or very near max , with one brand over max dimensions(brass diameter)once chamber was reamed never again a problem with any brand ammo.

 

[John_M52]

Follow-up range report:

Took friend's reworked Kimber to the range. 2nd round failure to extract. Case being extracted seemed to hang up on case mouth of the next round in the mag. Next 125 rounds no issue. 3 different brands of ammo. Jury still out IMO. Told him to put another 500 rounds through and see how it goes.